Antiquated Race Circuits
06-25-2013, 05:03 PM
#16
I thought the tracks want you to hit things so they can charge you for armco etc. How new tracks can be built like NJMP with hundreds of acres and guard rails, walls etc to hit is bafling to me.
06-25-2013, 05:10 PM
#17
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btw is Blackhawk Farm still open?
that's the only track I've been on where the safety facilities (or lack thereof) truly concerned me. partially because a few months before I was there, a formula car driver was killed when a deer ran in front of him from the forest 50 feet away from the front stretch.
that's the only track I've been on where the safety facilities (or lack thereof) truly concerned me. partially because a few months before I was there, a formula car driver was killed when a deer ran in front of him from the forest 50 feet away from the front stretch.
Yes, new owner in the last few years. Lots of updates although I think mostly in paddock. Not sure what has been done on the track.
As for forest near track, that's found at most tracks. Outside of the rovals I can't think of any that don't have a forested area close to the track.
FWIW I've seen deer strikes at a LOT of tracks. More than I care to think about actually. I know I've been on pit wall yelling at a steward that a deer on/near the track needs to be a full course yellow.
06-25-2013, 05:13 PM
#18
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When Panoz put 8-12' tall concrete walls less than 50' off the racing surface 80-85% of the way around the circuit, it started collecting more cars. It became less "club driver friendly," IMO. But they HAD to keep the cars out of the spectator areas. And one of the best circuit and motorsports insurance representatives in the business, Tony Phelps, of K&K, was part of that push, IIRC.
Also, the speeds have increased. I remember twenty years ago and a well-driven 944 Turbo could be one of the quickest cars on track at a DE. Now, you have MANY cars that come to VIR for DE's that routinely exceed 150 and even 160 mph. Crazy. The debris field is a lot bigger the faster you go...
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06-25-2013, 05:17 PM
#19
Yes, new owner in the last few years. Lots of updates although I think mostly in paddock. Not sure what has been done on the track.
As for forest near track, that's found at most tracks. Outside of the rovals I can't think of any that don't have a forested area close to the track.
As for forest near track, that's found at most tracks. Outside of the rovals I can't think of any that don't have a forested area close to the track.
it's a cool little track, glad it's still operating...it's just scary
06-25-2013, 05:36 PM
#20
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Interesting insights, as usual, Peter, and a very interesting reference piece.
I'm happy and surprised to see the major NE tracks are all FIA Grade 2's (WGI, LRP, NJMP).
Would never have guessed LRP.
And with all the thought that goes into pits and garage, one has to wonder how the pit in to Korea ever got past?
I'm happy and surprised to see the major NE tracks are all FIA Grade 2's (WGI, LRP, NJMP).
Would never have guessed LRP.
And with all the thought that goes into pits and garage, one has to wonder how the pit in to Korea ever got past?
Yes, new owner in the last few years. Lots of updates although I think mostly in paddock. Not sure what has been done on the track.
As for forest near track, that's found at most tracks. Outside of the rovals I can't think of any that don't have a forested area close to the track.
FWIW I've seen deer strikes at a LOT of tracks. More than I care to think about actually. I know I've been on pit wall yelling at a steward that a deer on/near the track needs to be a full course yellow.
As for forest near track, that's found at most tracks. Outside of the rovals I can't think of any that don't have a forested area close to the track.
FWIW I've seen deer strikes at a LOT of tracks. More than I care to think about actually. I know I've been on pit wall yelling at a steward that a deer on/near the track needs to be a full course yellow.
06-25-2013, 05:40 PM
#21
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Interesting insights, as usual, Peter, and a very interesting reference piece.
I'm happy and surprised to see the major NE tracks are all FIA Grade 2's (WGI, LRP, NJMP).
Would never have guessed LRP.
And with all the thought that goes into pits and garage, one has to wonder how the pit in to Korea ever got past?
I'm happy and surprised to see the major NE tracks are all FIA Grade 2's (WGI, LRP, NJMP).
Would never have guessed LRP.
And with all the thought that goes into pits and garage, one has to wonder how the pit in to Korea ever got past?
I've done almost all of my racing/DE at LRP, WGI, NJMP, VIR and Monticello (and I love them all!). Glad to see most of them on the FIA list. Will be racing Mid-Ohio in September for the first time.
06-25-2013, 05:45 PM
#22
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I personally self-boycott tracks like Summit Point. Life is to precious and its just not worth it to exponentially increase the risk.
i raced enough to know that $h%t does happen and we will all eventually crash one day or total a car, either by our own fault or unfortunate circumstances (I decided to start Club Racing the day I crashed my GT2 at 140mph going up the Esses at The Glen due to someone else's oil spill).
The day that happens (and has happened!) and I want to be free of guilt that I did everything I could to prevent a severe injury or fatality, and that most importantly starts with the race venue (then car, mechanical spec, race organization, safety equipment, etc.)
i raced enough to know that $h%t does happen and we will all eventually crash one day or total a car, either by our own fault or unfortunate circumstances (I decided to start Club Racing the day I crashed my GT2 at 140mph going up the Esses at The Glen due to someone else's oil spill).
The day that happens (and has happened!) and I want to be free of guilt that I did everything I could to prevent a severe injury or fatality, and that most importantly starts with the race venue (then car, mechanical spec, race organization, safety equipment, etc.)
06-25-2013, 05:58 PM
#23
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I started DEing at Blackhawk, won't go back. I've seen cars disappear into the woods after a brake failure, took them 10 minutes to find him. I've seen cars literally disappear into grass so tall you can't see a car in it. Lotsa trees real nearby, short, choppy, never really felt comfortable (or at least as comfortable as you ever feel) there.
06-25-2013, 06:13 PM
#24
btw is Blackhawk Farm still open?
that's the only track I've been on where the safety facilities (or lack thereof) truly concerned me. partially because a few months before I was there, a formula car driver was killed when a deer ran in front of him from the forest 50 feet away from the front stretch.
that's the only track I've been on where the safety facilities (or lack thereof) truly concerned me. partially because a few months before I was there, a formula car driver was killed when a deer ran in front of him from the forest 50 feet away from the front stretch.
Greg A
06-25-2013, 06:28 PM
#25
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Also, is it something that repeats, or a lesson learned once per driver?
06-25-2013, 07:35 PM
#27
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06-25-2013, 07:49 PM
#28
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While I respect Carlos' decision, I don't think the car has much to do with it.
I have averaged 98 mph at Summit, 100+ at Roebling, 102+ at Road Atlanta and am knocking on 105 mph AVERAGE at Lime Rock in a car with less horsepower than your car, Frank!
If I make a mistake and hit something, it's not any less hard, less dangerous or less expensive at Lime Rock's West Bend than the Chute at Summit Point or the bottom of the Esses at Road Atlanta.
All you can do is make SURE your restraint system is up to snuff (which is why I have so MANY of my customers buy custom-fitted Bald Spot Seats and pay a LOT of attention to hazards INSIDE the car), that structurally you've lifed fasteners and suspension components, including wheels and that you pay attention to approaching limits gradually, rather than throwing it at the wall and hoping it sticks.
The organization and the culture you choose to race with can influence adversely your risk profile. I think of the unnecessary Spec E30 accident at NASA Mid-Atlantic's HyperFest event on Summit Main recently. Bad deal, for both guys...
I have averaged 98 mph at Summit, 100+ at Roebling, 102+ at Road Atlanta and am knocking on 105 mph AVERAGE at Lime Rock in a car with less horsepower than your car, Frank!
If I make a mistake and hit something, it's not any less hard, less dangerous or less expensive at Lime Rock's West Bend than the Chute at Summit Point or the bottom of the Esses at Road Atlanta.
All you can do is make SURE your restraint system is up to snuff (which is why I have so MANY of my customers buy custom-fitted Bald Spot Seats and pay a LOT of attention to hazards INSIDE the car), that structurally you've lifed fasteners and suspension components, including wheels and that you pay attention to approaching limits gradually, rather than throwing it at the wall and hoping it sticks.
The organization and the culture you choose to race with can influence adversely your risk profile. I think of the unnecessary Spec E30 accident at NASA Mid-Atlantic's HyperFest event on Summit Main recently. Bad deal, for both guys...
Check what happened to me in an unfortunate spin at SPR (over a wet patch in T1 during practice) a few years back. In a "normal" track such an off doesnt end up with the car up side down. The car was easy to fix and I didnt have a scratch on me, but just look at where the trees are, and the banked dirt can act as a ramp at higher speeds.
This wasnt in the Cup. It was in my H Stock Cayman.
https://vimeo.com/15472750
06-25-2013, 08:13 PM
#29
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Mid Ohio finally fixed that broken urinal after three years!
06-25-2013, 08:16 PM
#30
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Check what happened to me in an unfortunate spin at SPR (over a wet patch in T1 during practice) a few years back. In a "normal" track such an off doesnt end up with the car up side down. The car was easy to fix and I didnt have a scratch on me, but just look at where the trees are, and the banked dirt can act as a ramp at higher speeds.
This wasnt in the Cup. It was in my H Stock Cayman.
https://vimeo.com/15472750
This wasnt in the Cup. It was in my H Stock Cayman.
https://vimeo.com/15472750