gums

Reflecting on this past weekend's events, surely safety measures will be revisited. Many of us race on circuits that are certainly not up to FIA standards, but it would be interesting if not constructive, to call attention to some of the more dangerous circuits and sections that we use regularly. Here in the east, Summit Point seems like it's a bit dated, with dirt banks causing rolls on a regular basis. I've never been, but out west I'd have to say that Willow Springs looks like a dump, to be kind. What others? What experiences/observations?

FrankyV

I hear from my brother that Nelson's Ledges in Ohio is quite bad if you go off and doesn't even have running water.

multi21

Yes, it certainly is a dump. One of the oldest tracks and a little off can do a world of damage. Can't believe the owners haven't put in any improvements into this place. Simple racking of the dirt to get rid of all the rocks and boulders would certainly help. If you google Turn 9 at willow, you'll see what kind of crap can happen.

Ironically enough Willow Springs was repaved a couple years ago, but not by the track owners, but rather by Red Bull Racing who were doing some kind of promotional F1 video with Tom Cruise.

Cheyenne

How will track improvements be paid for?

Do people want to pay more to go to the track?

Will people boycott tracks that don't put money into improvements, even if they have few alternatives?

Do track owners actually have capital to make improvements, or are they running a thin margin?

I'd feel like a jerk if I had a track, and money, but didn't improve safety, if nothing else.

I'd also feel like a jerk if I had an appropriate property, and the means to build a track, and didn't...Even if it couldn't be a world class facility.

Does anyone have any experience talking to track owners on the subject?

pontifex4

It does have running water, but it's the worst track I've been to by a long shot. The biggest single issue if you don't count the (many and massive) potholes is that it has a 'tire wall' going all the way around the outside of the track that is nothing but a giant pile of tires, from what I can see. Hundreds of thousands of tires, in a pile. Cars can easily ride up on (and in some cases over) the pile.

Chaos

FIA?
Nelsons Ledges, Beavrun, Summit Point, the old IRP are not up to Tough Mudder specs...

gums

surprised to see BeaveRun in that grouping. A relatively new track. what goes on up there?

cgomez

I personally self-boycott tracks like Summit Point. Life is to precious and its just not worth it to exponentially increase the risk.
i raced enough to know that $h%t does happen and we will all eventually crash one day or total a car, either by our own fault or unfortunate circumstances (I decided to start Club Racing the day I crashed my GT2 at 140mph going up the Esses at The Glen due to someone else's oil spill).

The day that happens (and has happened!) and I want to be free of guilt that I did everything I could to prevent a severe injury or fatality, and that most importantly starts with the race venue (then car, mechanical spec, race organization, safety equipment, etc.)

ProCoach

Page 16-17 here: http://www.fiainstitute.com/media-ce...y_07082009.pdf

I know Kerrigan Smith, Manager of Track Operations at VIR, made it a personal priority to put in place the improvements to have Charlie come and certify the track as an FIA Grade 2 facility.

ProCoach

Current (2012) World Circuit FIA Grade List: http://www.fpak.pt/homologacoes/2012...FIA%202012.pdf

Track owners are not often the managers. The managers do what they can to meet the insurance company (for their track operations policy) requirements with the budget they have. That's all they need to do.

Other, more wealthy individuals who build or own the larger facilities (George Barber, former owner of Barber Motorsports Park, Lawrence Stroll, Le Circuit Mont Tremblant, Dr. Don Panoz, former owner of Road Atlanta and Larry Miller, Miller Motorsports Park), are often motivated to make improvements that are required to host the higher-end professional racing series. FIM for Barber, CART and Grand Am for Mont Tremblant and CART for Road Atlanta come to mind. Some of these came about, some did not.

I can assure everyone that there is no great (if any) margin for most tracks, at EVERY level and based on circuit rentals alone, although there are often other ventures peripheral to the track operations that help turn the tide from red to black.

Having been involved as a consultant for several tracks in their formative stages in the East, it's mostly passion that gets people going and motivated to do this, not the prospective return.

That's why after having been to COTA, I have such questions about THAT model, in particular.

Getting back to the smaller Club tracks, it's been twenty-five years since Summit hosted it's last serious pro IMSA GTO/GTU race, but I can say that the track is TEN TIMES better than it used to be, back then. Me? I like it and don't view it as a more substantial risk than many other smaller tracks.

I think you often see new owners of facilities (Jim and Kathy Stout come to mind at BeaveRun) pump money in from other successful business or personal holdings to make these places better, but these folks often come in and buy the circuits out of bankruptcy (as Jim Kanely, George Nuse and others did Road Atlanta in 1993) so they start from a better standpoint.

Many of these tracks were built in the Fifties, Sixties and Seventies, so it's unrealistic to assume that you can remove all of the topographic features that make some of these places more hazardous than others.

It really boils down to a personal decision and minimizing your own risk exposure to your own acceptable level. It is a "wake up call" when this confluence of events happens, but it is part of motor racing, and we have come a LONG way...

gums

Your cars are way too fast for tracks like that, Carlos. Spec Miatas and the like are more suited. You're a wise man.

GuyIncognito

Willow is a great track but a horrible facility...and rather dangerous in places. I agree it needs a significant face lift and safety review.

btw red bull didn't repave the track, just put down sealer to make it pretty for their video shoot

gums

Interesting insights, as usual, Peter, and a very interesting reference piece.
I'm happy and surprised to see the major NE tracks are all FIA Grade 2's (WGI, LRP, NJMP).
Would never have guessed LRP.
And with all the thought that goes into pits and garage, one has to wonder how the pit in to Korea ever got past?

ProCoach

While I respect Carlos' decision, I don't think the car has much to do with it.

I have averaged 98 mph at Summit, 100+ at Roebling, 102+ at Road Atlanta and am knocking on 105 mph AVERAGE at Lime Rock in a car with less horsepower than your car, Frank!

If I make a mistake and hit something, it's not any less hard, less dangerous or less expensive at Lime Rock's West Bend than the Chute at Summit Point or the bottom of the Esses at Road Atlanta.

All you can do is make SURE your restraint system is up to snuff (which is why I have so MANY of my customers buy custom-fitted Bald Spot Seats and pay a LOT of attention to hazards INSIDE the car), that structurally you've lifed fasteners and suspension components, including wheels and that you pay attention to approaching limits gradually, rather than throwing it at the wall and hoping it sticks.

The organization and the culture you choose to race with can influence adversely your risk profile. I think of the unnecessary Spec E30 accident at NASA Mid-Atlantic's HyperFest event on Summit Main recently. Bad deal, for both guys...

GuyIncognito

btw is Blackhawk Farm still open?

that's the only track I've been on where the safety facilities (or lack thereof) truly concerned me. partially because a few months before I was there, a formula car driver was killed when a deer ran in front of him from the forest 50 feet away from the front stretch.