Order of Operations - what modifications come first for converting to a track car?
06-24-2013, 06:09 PM
#31
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I failed to mention brakes. For the most part, the first steps used to be good fresh fluid (like ATE Super Blue) and good performance or racing pads, and whatever additional ducting one could easily apply. Then if necessary, non-stock caliper and rotor systems and more extreme ducting might be applied. Lots of choices. And different tracks drive different requirements. And of course one needs to consider the vehicle's weight.
What one would recommend for braking system for a 944 turbo at 3000 pounds with 350 bhp and driving 90% or events at Laguna Seca might be different if the car weighed 2700 pounds instead or mostly drove at LRP.
What one would recommend for braking system for a 944 turbo at 3000 pounds with 350 bhp and driving 90% or events at Laguna Seca might be different if the car weighed 2700 pounds instead or mostly drove at LRP.
06-24-2013, 06:11 PM
#32
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What kind of shoes???? Comfortable ones. 
Go try some on and make sure they fit right (those Italian made shoes tend to be really, really narrow) be sure you can heel toe in them.
For 2-3 weekends a year, I'd stop the list at: sticker tires, better brake pads, good Helmet, gloves, shoes and fire extinguisher. If you mount a roll bar you can run the racing harness with HANs.
Go try some on and make sure they fit right (those Italian made shoes tend to be really, really narrow) be sure you can heel toe in them.
For 2-3 weekends a year, I'd stop the list at: sticker tires, better brake pads, good Helmet, gloves, shoes and fire extinguisher. If you mount a roll bar you can run the racing harness with HANs.
06-24-2013, 06:12 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
I was friendly with the folks at Devek back in the day. They had track days with gaggles of 928 cars in various levels of trim. Some of those folks may still be around... not necessarily active in these forums or on the 'net in general but still around and willing to share. I am not sure what your PCA region is, but I do know that Potomac has a rich history with at least the 944 and 951 cars from back in the day.
I also suspect that John Veninger might still be around.... oops I see he is. His experience goes way back with these cars. I would certainly try to learn as much as possible from him. And maybe get a hold of some of the old articles from Pano, et cetera.
I also suspect that John Veninger might still be around.... oops I see he is. His experience goes way back with these cars. I would certainly try to learn as much as possible from him. And maybe get a hold of some of the old articles from Pano, et cetera.
06-24-2013, 06:16 PM
#34
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I think you're the only one suggesting stickier tires! By that do you mean something like an RA1 or the R6? I have a new helmet, snell 2010 iirc. I need the gloves and shoes and definitely a fire extinguisher. I also need a tow hook! My stock one doesn't fit for some reason (the one in the tool kit).
After reading more, if you're going to tow to the track. I'd look into some sort of bolt in roll bar, with race seats, 5/6 point harness and HANs.
06-24-2013, 06:19 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Ahh, and one more thing about wheels and tires.
Back in the day, we worked pretty hard to ensure that our "track" wheels were forged and not pressure-cast. This was pretty easy in 16 inch wheel land for 911 cars as they had Fuchs. A little tougher for water-cooled, but we often had Club Sport (best Porsche wheels ever) and "sewer lid" 16 inch choices. In the larger diameters, forged wheels are a little more challenging (in terms of $$$). I think it best to get informed on this and make decisions accordingly. No reason to believe that this is less important these days than before.
As an aside, I saw several pressure cast wheel failures last Saturday at Laguna Seca. Ugly business that.
And yes, even forged wheels can crack. I saw several BBS wheels with cracked centers at Laguna as well. Get informed and choose wisely. Not only products, but processes and practices as well.
Back in the day, we worked pretty hard to ensure that our "track" wheels were forged and not pressure-cast. This was pretty easy in 16 inch wheel land for 911 cars as they had Fuchs. A little tougher for water-cooled, but we often had Club Sport (best Porsche wheels ever) and "sewer lid" 16 inch choices. In the larger diameters, forged wheels are a little more challenging (in terms of $$$). I think it best to get informed on this and make decisions accordingly. No reason to believe that this is less important these days than before.
As an aside, I saw several pressure cast wheel failures last Saturday at Laguna Seca. Ugly business that.
And yes, even forged wheels can crack. I saw several BBS wheels with cracked centers at Laguna as well. Get informed and choose wisely. Not only products, but processes and practices as well.
06-24-2013, 06:20 PM
#36
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Thread Starter
I'm being realistic, the easiest way to go faster is to run on better tires. You don't have to run Hoosiers but you'll want something better than what you're running in the street. I've enjoyed RA1s and the Hankooks. Not too pricey and both have nice grip and will last a while.
After reading more, if you're going to tow to the track. I'd look into some sort of bolt in roll bar, with race seats, 5/6 point harness and HANs.
After reading more, if you're going to tow to the track. I'd look into some sort of bolt in roll bar, with race seats, 5/6 point harness and HANs.
06-24-2013, 06:22 PM
#37
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06-24-2013, 06:22 PM
#38
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Ahh, and one more thing about wheels and tires.
Back in the day, we worked pretty hard to ensure that our "track" wheels were forged and not pressure-cast. This was pretty easy in 16 inch wheel land for 911 cars as they had Fuchs. A little tougher for water-cooled, but we often had Club Sport (best Porsche wheels ever) and "sewer lid" 16 inch choices. In the larger diameters, forged wheels are a little more challenging (in terms of $$$). I think it best to get informed on this and make decisions accordingly. No reason to believe that this is less important these days than before.
As an aside, I saw several pressure cast wheel failures last Saturday at Laguna Seca. Ugly business that.
And yes, even forged wheels can crack. I saw several BBS wheels with cracked centers at Laguna as well. Get informed and choose wisely. Not only products, but processes and practices as well.
Back in the day, we worked pretty hard to ensure that our "track" wheels were forged and not pressure-cast. This was pretty easy in 16 inch wheel land for 911 cars as they had Fuchs. A little tougher for water-cooled, but we often had Club Sport (best Porsche wheels ever) and "sewer lid" 16 inch choices. In the larger diameters, forged wheels are a little more challenging (in terms of $$$). I think it best to get informed on this and make decisions accordingly. No reason to believe that this is less important these days than before.
As an aside, I saw several pressure cast wheel failures last Saturday at Laguna Seca. Ugly business that.
And yes, even forged wheels can crack. I saw several BBS wheels with cracked centers at Laguna as well. Get informed and choose wisely. Not only products, but processes and practices as well.
06-24-2013, 06:23 PM
#39
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06-24-2013, 06:39 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Ahh and finally, from experience...
In my experience, there can be a marked a difference in performance for things like engine "performance enhancements, "mods," and what have you that exist and work well in the "tuner" world, and those same items for track use. Sometimes "tuner world stuff" works really well for cars that are nearly 100% driven on the street. But some of these things may not work well or may be extremely problematic for even occasional track use, for example due to higher revs and extended periods of WOT.
For example, I can envision a 951 "tuner car" with an engine running 21 psi of boost and having exciting street car performance, not lasting too long in the DE world. Even with just a few DE's. The use case can be different. Take a 951 "tuner car" with a Motec-controlled , 600 bhp+++ engine by Jon Milledge, different story.
In my experience, there can be a marked a difference in performance for things like engine "performance enhancements, "mods," and what have you that exist and work well in the "tuner" world, and those same items for track use. Sometimes "tuner world stuff" works really well for cars that are nearly 100% driven on the street. But some of these things may not work well or may be extremely problematic for even occasional track use, for example due to higher revs and extended periods of WOT.
For example, I can envision a 951 "tuner car" with an engine running 21 psi of boost and having exciting street car performance, not lasting too long in the DE world. Even with just a few DE's. The use case can be different. Take a 951 "tuner car" with a Motec-controlled , 600 bhp+++ engine by Jon Milledge, different story.
06-24-2013, 07:09 PM
#42
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I have a 997tt but for brakes
-PFC 08 pads
-Castrol SRF fluid
-stock rotors / calipers
for tires
-I run bridgestone re11
-also recommend hankook rs3 and yoko ad08 in same category
-huge upgrade over ps2 and will last longer on track
Right now I am fighting the urge to mod more and focus more on just getting on the race track to try to improve with more seat time. And also focusing on forcing myself to learn how to heel/toe
I am blue solo / blue (depending on organization) fyi, so a newb myself.
Best of luck!
06-24-2013, 07:22 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
06-24-2013, 08:46 PM
#44
The Penguin King
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The recommendations to go safety first are spot on. However I agree with the comments to think long and hard about modding a 928 for the track. There are other options that will in long run be cheaper to build and operate. Keep in mind that along the way you will be breaking parts that will get increasingly difficult to find.
06-24-2013, 08:51 PM
#45
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STOP! See photo.
The only reasonable course of action is to sell or park the 928. Buy an already prepared Race Car with a PCA log book. For chump change, compared to what you are going to spend progressing your 928, you can buy a full race prepped 924 or 944. You will get all the safety equipment and go fast mods you need to be competitive in racing and you are sure to win all your DEs. It will have some resell market as well. The 928 will never be a good race car and it will cost you an arm and leg to keep it running.
The only reasonable course of action is to sell or park the 928. Buy an already prepared Race Car with a PCA log book. For chump change, compared to what you are going to spend progressing your 928, you can buy a full race prepped 924 or 944. You will get all the safety equipment and go fast mods you need to be competitive in racing and you are sure to win all your DEs. It will have some resell market as well. The 928 will never be a good race car and it will cost you an arm and leg to keep it running.