Courtshark

Down the slope I go... I've decided that my 928 S4 is going to become a street legal but track-focused car. I'm doing my 3rd DE this fall, and aiming to do at least 2 DEs per year. Liikely more if the car is indeed a dedicated track car. I plan to make a track car that is still street legal. The body needs paint/wrap/something, and to me, it's either go nuts with that, or go nuts with tracking it. I know some can do both; I'd rather not worry about the body and just go faster while building as safe a car as possible.

I'm planning to pull out the AC and all related components when I swap in my new radiator here shortly, but not solely for weight reasons. On the 928 the AC condensor sits right in front of the radiator.

The car already has a modified suspension (springs, shocks, drop links, solid steering rack mounts) and upgraded brakes. Momo steering wheel. Stock interior otherwise (in very good condition).

Wheels and tires: currently running street tires on Carrera IIIs (as pictured) but I'm considering going with slicks. The rear tires definitely need imminent replacement. Seems like a smart time to get slicks, especially considering I have brand new 19s with fresh tires on them for street use. Two part question: if I get slicks, which slicks? I read a couple of threads praising Hankook Z214s, but Hankook R6s seem to be the standard.

Is it stupid to get slicks before getting a roll cage and seat/harness upgrade?

Thanks in advance!

Veloce Raptor

Safety.

Safety.

Safety.

And cooling.

SoClose

What he said. And yes, slicks should be very low on your current list.

sbelles

What they said. If you want to drop your lap times, get a trailer.

Courtshark

?

I have one. But I think towing it around the track would be annoying to others. My tow vehicle is pretty quick though.

So I should just get some street tires for the rears for now, and eventually a roll cage, seat, and harness? I assume the cage comes first of those three.

Thanks again!

mklaskin

The other suggestions are all very good. Here's a few from a guy who jumped in too quickly.

Don't rush to get slicks. Slicks will increase performance, but will also eat up the consumables on a car much faster. By consumables, I mean brakes, half-shafts, differentials, etc. Start with a dedicated dry weather ultra high performance tire, and learn the car. Slicks can get expensive, and they won't last as long.

What VR said about safety cannot be emphasized enough. Do you have a cage or harness bar? Definitely a higher priority than slicks. If you have a cage, get fitted for a seat, one that will hold you in place well enough that you don't have to think about it on track. Trying to brace yourself while learning is an unecessary distraction and takes some of the fun away.

While shopping for a seat, get good harnesses too. Schroth, Sparco, Sabelt, are a few of the more popular brands. Make sure they are installed correctly!!

Okay, now you've got the cage, seat, and belts. What's next? Assuming you have a good helmet (don't be one those guys wearing a snowmobile helmet on track...), get a HANS Device. The newer HANS allow better rotation for visibility, and once you get used to it, you won't notice it at all.

I don't know if you're driving to and from the track, or trailering, but you should consider having a decent set of spares with you. Brake pads, brake fluid, anything else that a 928 might need on a regular basis.

Get to know your regions Chief Driving Instructor. Have him/her ride with you to get some pointers. Maybe ask them to drive your car for feedback. Sometimes we don't know what we don't know.

Don't put too much pressure on yourself. Don't get overly competitive. If a guy in a slower car is passing you, see what you can learn from him. It's supposed to fun.

Courtshark

Thanks! No cage yet, but I will look into it shortly. There's a shop near me that does custom cages. I assume weld-in is the way to go over bolt-in?

Astroman

Sorry, I don't mean to be a ball buster, but the Hankook Z214 and Hoosier R6 are not "slicks." Most people here refer to them as DOT approved "R-compound" tires.

And while I'm not saying these should be on the top of your list, I bet that 98% of the people on this forum were driving on the track on "R-comp" racing tires long before they had a full cage.

For a dual purpose car, start with a good roll bar and a seat/harness. Then have someone you trust really inspect your installation.

Courtshark

No worries, Astroman. I'm a DE noob still learning how to steer, let alone tell the difference between r-compound tires and full on slicks.

paver

Is it really a good idea to use a tire as grippy as an R6 with so little track experience?
I guess I'm overly cautious. I drove over 30 trackdays before I ran an r-comp.

Courtshark

Honest question: are stickier tires not a safety upgrade? I would think they can help improve braking and obviously cornering. Is the concern that I'd be carrying that much more speed through the course?

mklaskin

Not necessarily a safety upgrade.

Keep in mind that slicks have higher thresholds than street tires. You'll need to get more heat into the tires, sooner, to really appreciate the benefits. You may wind up pushing the car harder than you're ready, just to get the slicks to feel like they're working.

Way before you even consider slicks, have your car throughly gone over by a reputable shop. Preferrably one that is familiar with DE's.

It's a very good idea to start with a higher performance street tire, and then graduate to a DOT competition tire, before trying slicks. You'll be able to really tell what you and the car are doing and this will give you feedback for improvement.

bluecrab

I think this seems extreme for only 2 HPDE events per year.

If you have 3 so far, it will take you 4 years to get to 10+ events.

IMO I would just get a set of track wheels and tires (run extreme summer tires at first) and run race brake pads. That should be all the performance you need, and not force you to make semi-permanent modifications when you really aren't going to be doing that much tracking

JMO.

(coming from a guy who has done 6 HPDE events and plans to run 8-10 events per year and runs with only extreme summers and race pads as track mods)

tonypai

Not really advice but some good information that I wish I had known 5 years ago.

This seems to be the progression that my friends have followed:

1. Better tires and brake pad compound (relatively cheap and easy, like dipping your toe into the water)
2. Big Brake Kit (first big purchase!!!)
3. Moar bettar Exhaust (oh it sounds great, never mind the droning)
4. Brake ducting and/or bigger rotors (BBK stopped the car faster but also boiled the brake fluid faster)
5. Car diet (out goes the comfy interior, AC and radio)

At this point most wives draw the line and refuse to ride in the car anymore. Awesome! Remove the passenger seat.

6. Engine mods (Moar power = turbo kit)
7. Roll bar
8. Race seats and harness
9. Bigger turbo (optional)
10. Tow vehicle and trailer (car is too uncomfortable to drive to the track (why is it so loud???) and it breaks down all the time)

Now that the owner has reached the point of no return, they've realized that they spent a lot of money to make a nice comfortable car uncomfortable and only usable a handful of weekends a year. On top of that, it doesn't fit into a race class!

11. Sell the car
12. Buy a fully caged race car like an e36 M3 or Miata
13. Ahhh.......relief. The simplicity of it all
14. Crap.......this towing to the track is a PITA. Sell the race car.
15. Buy a nice street car M3, 911 and NO MODS!!!!! Just a couple of DEs a year.

LOL

Personally I'm at step 13 right now. :-).

To the OP:

Are you planning or even thinking about racing in the future? Think hard before answering.
No - continue with your mods
Yes - Stop with the mods and find race group/class/car now. It'll be cheaper.

I'll give you one piece of "cheap" advice......go buy some good nomex race gloves. Not that pricey and will save you from hand fatigue.

Good luck!

Veloce Raptor

Nope, not a safety upgrade. if anything, they are the opposite, since they have a smaller threshhold between grip andmno grip, and often don't communicate their imminent slippage nearly as well nor as early as a good street tire.