Somebody Talk Me Out of This...
04-20-2013, 03:08 PM
#46
Page 34 onwards gives you a general sense of the classes:
http://www.pca.org/portals/cr/2013%2...ule%20Book.pdf
Listen to the others, what class you successfully race in is a function of your experience and the size of your wallet
. Don't start with a specific car, identify the class you want to race in first and then look for a competitive car in that class.
For PCA Club Racing: If you have no racing license, you need to demonstrate 12 days of DE over the past 24 months AND you need a sign off by your PCA regions Chief Instructor for your Rookie application. THen you need to make it past "the talk" with Susan Shire.
http://www.pca.org/portals/cr/2013%2...ule%20Book.pdf
Listen to the others, what class you successfully race in is a function of your experience and the size of your wallet
. Don't start with a specific car, identify the class you want to race in first and then look for a competitive car in that class.For PCA Club Racing: If you have no racing license, you need to demonstrate 12 days of DE over the past 24 months AND you need a sign off by your PCA regions Chief Instructor for your Rookie application. THen you need to make it past "the talk" with Susan Shire
.The rule book is it - and it is confusing until you have read it 15 times. In a nutshell here is a simple list to help get you started...keeping your semi-budget 911 in mind.
The Stock classes, say D through H (you see the list in the book) are just that. Semi stripped 911s, limited to a few mods and weight. E Stock is a huge class with lots of fun competetion.
The Prepared Stock cars are those which have had one or two limited mods which carry them out of Stock.
The GTC cars are factory Cup cars: GTC1=964 Cups through GTC5=the newest of the 7Cups.
The GTA cars are other factory cars, RSRs, Rs or Cups which have been modded beyond the restrictions of GTC. Class (1 or 2) is based on engine size.
The GT cars (like the one you like) are cars which have been modded beyond Stock or Prepared. Virtually anything goes. Classification (GT1 through GT5) is based on theoretical horsepower (i.e. 6cyl aircooled engines have a theo hp of 110 per liter) and weight. Some cars in this class are simply there because the owner build a bit of a hot rod and exceeded Stock, others were built to a specific class. GTxS cars run on DOTs and GTxR cars on slicks - no big deal.
Others can add in, but hopefully this helps.
The Stock classes, say D through H (you see the list in the book) are just that. Semi stripped 911s, limited to a few mods and weight. E Stock is a huge class with lots of fun competetion.
The Prepared Stock cars are those which have had one or two limited mods which carry them out of Stock.
The GTC cars are factory Cup cars: GTC1=964 Cups through GTC5=the newest of the 7Cups.
The GTA cars are other factory cars, RSRs, Rs or Cups which have been modded beyond the restrictions of GTC. Class (1 or 2) is based on engine size.
The GT cars (like the one you like) are cars which have been modded beyond Stock or Prepared. Virtually anything goes. Classification (GT1 through GT5) is based on theoretical horsepower (i.e. 6cyl aircooled engines have a theo hp of 110 per liter) and weight. Some cars in this class are simply there because the owner build a bit of a hot rod and exceeded Stock, others were built to a specific class. GTxS cars run on DOTs and GTxR cars on slicks - no big deal.
Others can add in, but hopefully this helps.
04-20-2013, 03:32 PM
#47
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Just do it!
04-20-2013, 03:38 PM
#48
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The rule book is it - and it is confusing until you have read it 15 times. In a nutshell here is a simple list to help get you started...keeping your semi-budget 911 in mind.
The Stock classes, say D through H (you see the list in the book) are just that. Semi stripped 911s, limited to a few mods and weight. E Stock is a huge class with lots of fun competetion.
The Prepared Stock cars are those which have had one or two limited mods which carry them out of Stock.
The GTC cars are factory Cup cars: GTC1=964 Cups through GTC5=the newest of the 7Cups.
The GTA cars are other factory cars, RSRs, Rs or Cups which have been modded beyond the restrictions of GTC. Class (1 or 2) is based on engine size.
The GT cars (like the one you like) are cars which have been modded beyond Stock or Prepared. Virtually anything goes. Classification (GT1 through GT5) is based on theoretical horsepower (i.e. 6cyl aircooled engines have a theo hp of 110 per liter) and weight. Some cars in this class are simply there because the owner build a bit of a hot rod and exceeded Stock, others were built to a specific class. GTxS cars run on DOTs and GTxR cars on slicks - no big deal.
Others can add in, but hopefully this helps.
The Stock classes, say D through H (you see the list in the book) are just that. Semi stripped 911s, limited to a few mods and weight. E Stock is a huge class with lots of fun competetion.
The Prepared Stock cars are those which have had one or two limited mods which carry them out of Stock.
The GTC cars are factory Cup cars: GTC1=964 Cups through GTC5=the newest of the 7Cups.
The GTA cars are other factory cars, RSRs, Rs or Cups which have been modded beyond the restrictions of GTC. Class (1 or 2) is based on engine size.
The GT cars (like the one you like) are cars which have been modded beyond Stock or Prepared. Virtually anything goes. Classification (GT1 through GT5) is based on theoretical horsepower (i.e. 6cyl aircooled engines have a theo hp of 110 per liter) and weight. Some cars in this class are simply there because the owner build a bit of a hot rod and exceeded Stock, others were built to a specific class. GTxS cars run on DOTs and GTxR cars on slicks - no big deal.
Others can add in, but hopefully this helps.
JF
Last edited by 993PET; 04-21-2013 at 11:38 AM.
04-20-2013, 06:54 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you look at the current stock prep rules ABS upgrade is free as long as it does not include traction control. New to me and a big advantage. Elect PS pump is worth 8 to 10 whp, but I think the 964 is a gray area since it was optioned with a manual rack on the RSA which would negate the pump anyways.
04-20-2013, 06:59 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
BTW the 964 would do well in PCA, but have a hard time in NASA GTS eg: his best time is a 2:09 at the Glen which if ballasted up is excellent in H, but in GTS3 the record is a 2:04 ( I think Eric W. ran a 2:03 with his transponder broken !!) and several cars are there. Same at Mid O with GTS3. It is tough to campaign and old school car in GTS now with the advanced aero features being open to all mods.
04-20-2013, 08:03 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Scott,
I agree with you and was surprised. It opens up a huge window to a money mod (go bosch M4 and delete traction control option) that can give you the corner versus a stock setup.
I agree with you and was surprised. It opens up a huge window to a money mod (go bosch M4 and delete traction control option) that can give you the corner versus a stock setup.
04-21-2013, 09:22 AM
#56
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Beyond this car (which I love!) I wonder how many have done this.
04-21-2013, 11:09 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
BTW the 964 would do well in PCA, but have a hard time in NASA GTS eg: his best time is a 2:09 at the Glen which if ballasted up is excellent in H, but in GTS3 the record is a 2:04 ( I think Eric W. ran a 2:03 with his transponder broken !!) and several cars are there. Same at Mid O with GTS3. It is tough to campaign and old school car in GTS now with the advanced aero features being open to all mods.
Your right regarding the car in NASA GTS3. I should have been clearer in my ad that the PB times I quoted are with the car in PCA H configeration with the stock 3.8RS rear wing element. For NASA I use the 50" Getty EVO 1 rear wing which is worth an additional 1 to 2 seconds a lap at most tracks. As we all know it's difficult to build a car that will be a class winner in more than one sanctioning body/series. When I started to develop this car, my primary focus was PCA Prepared H with NASA GTS3 as secondary. Although the car has been an occassional class winner in NASA GTS3 it would need additional Aero front & rear to be a consistant podium car in the mix with the fastest M3's . This could easily be added for NASA and removed for PCA by whom ever purchases it and would have been my plan if I wasn't moving to a 996 Cup. The car comes in right at the top of the power to weight ratio for GTS3 of 11lbs. per RWHP.
Ultimately it's the nut behind the wheel that makes the final difference between winning and being an also ran no matter how well prepared the car is. I'm sure there are plenty of more experienced club racer's out their that could take the car further than I have.
Regarding the mods: I didn't write the rules but I have complied with them and the car is legal. When Geoffrey Ring assisted in the installation of the 996 Cup ABS he mentioned that he thought the rule had been added for the Cayman but didn't elaberate and I wasn't sure what he meant.
Incidentally Martin Schacht informed me that the car is also a very good fit in POC GT4 Class. The car does have a POC log book from the previous owner in CA. but since POC has no presence in the Mid West where I live I have not raced in that class.
JF
Last edited by 993PET; 04-21-2013 at 04:09 PM.
04-21-2013, 11:21 AM
#58
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As far as I know my car is the only one that has had the 996 Cup ABS installed. The control unit is very rare & $$$$ and when I was looking for one 2 years ago PMNA did not stock them. I was lucky enough to find a unit through a trade of many parts.
Geoffrey Ring was initially responsible for putting the idea in my head after driving the car during a coaching session at the Glen and remarking how lousy the stock street ABS was on the track at the limit. I decided to go ahead with the mod after reviewing the rules. As you probably know the cheap easy option is to install a dash mounted ABS cutoff switch that was standard on the 964 Cups but I've never been too good at cheap and easy! Geoffrey also built a Custom Mil Spec Wiring Harness for the installation that was completed by Joel Reiser. I would not have considered going ahead without thier knowledge and expertise.
JF
Last edited by 993PET; 04-21-2013 at 12:52 PM.
04-21-2013, 12:22 PM
#59
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Yep, the stock ABS stays switched off in my car - it flat does not work for me when on.
The car is pretty twichy at the limits and set up loose, but is fast and loads of fun to drive - I have gone back and forth with myself regarding fancy ABS, but at the moment need tire money for the year...we'll see.
The car is pretty twichy at the limits and set up loose, but is fast and loads of fun to drive - I have gone back and forth with myself regarding fancy ABS, but at the moment need tire money for the year...we'll see.
04-23-2013, 03:43 PM
#60
Well, I've signed up as a volunteer for the Carrera of the Americas PCA event coming up at COTA next month. I imagine that will be quite an educational experience and help me make some decisions.
I read through the rule book on Sunday night and picked up quite a bit. However, I'm not clear on the differences between say a D stock and H stock. For example, why is E Stock typically a popular, large field?
I read through the rule book on Sunday night and picked up quite a bit. However, I'm not clear on the differences between say a D stock and H stock. For example, why is E Stock typically a popular, large field?