dwe8922

My cup car experience has been very good, and I still really enjoy the car. I do almost all of my own work on the car, so it's not impossible if you take on the task of learning, and can find someone willing to teach you. The engine and transmission are big cost factors, but the time is a known thing, and they seem to be very reliable in that time span. Tires seem to be the biggest cost factor; some guys will go through two sets a weekend. Very safe, fast, and reliable platform if you do it right.....

claykos

The reason you see the "grand canyon" spread of operating costs, in my opinion, is not necessarily related to wanting to run at the front of the pack or the back of the pack, but in the way that people operate.

There are racers, a lot of whom happen to own Cup cars just because of the nature of the car, who have the car professionally taken care of by a race shop. The car lives at the shop, gets transported to the track by the shop, shop provides coaching, lunch, data analysis, etc and the driver just flies in with a helmet and has a great time. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, but it's VERY expensive. The expense is a lot more about the shop support than it is about owning the cup car.

Buy an aircooled 993 racer or a Spec Boxster and have it live at a high end race shop, and get full arrive and drive support and it will be very expensive too! Sure, some parts are more expensive and require more maintenance on cups but it is a very high performance car. For anything that is in the same league lap time wise, the costs are not tremendously different.

Then there's the guys that do most everything themselves, nut and bolt, change fluids, replace axles, transport car to track, etc. Costs are an order of magnitude lower, but obviously the experience is a different one....

winders

I disagree. My air-cooled 911 race car runs with all but the latest Cup Cars and my front brake rotors cost $75 for a pair and the brake pads cost about $140 an axle. The tires, until Goodyear stopped making them, cost about $1300 a set and lasted about two race weekends and were competitive. I can run the engine for 200 hours. The 915 needs to be looked at every 20 hours or so though.

How much is each front rotor on your Cup Car? How much are the brake pads per axle? Can you run a set of tire for more than a weekend and be competitive? How much do the tires cost? How many hours before the engine and transaxle have to be freshened up? Cost?

I didn't even get into the cost of axles.....

When I built this air-cooled car, I looked at buying a Cup car instead. The initial buy-in would have been cheaper. It was the running costs they scared me away.

Scott

Glen

You really want my answer...?

KaiB

Yep...I know what my car costs to campaign. Not inexpensive and tires also play a major role if I want to be competetive. The next engine phase will also be a 60 hour motor.

But we remain air-cooled.

J richard

Clay knows well the relative costs, they've campaigned water cooled cars, air cooled cars and water cooled powered air cooled cars....

The big thing about a cup over a GT3 or a 3.6 race motor over a street air cooled six, is typically how high you spin them and for how long. Any engine spun to 8k is not going to last as long as one spun to 6800. Longevity, cost of the build and catastrophic failure all are exponentially different. Apples and oranges...

Glen

Yeah I mean I only spun all 12 of my cups to 8-8200, oops 8400 on the 997 cup, well except for the wc which I spun to 8800-9000...they each have each only lasted...x # hours...and then there were x# half shafts I replaced, then of course were the x# of uprights, wheel bearings, struts, gearbox rebuilds...of course I've only had x# of cups so....
Really can't wait, licking my chops....

That is of course after building the "cheap, low running cost , air cooled cars..."

Really really can't wait.... But I digress.

It's great to be able to race, I support all that can, regardless of platform.

I am going to ask Scott to codrive with me however at an enduro

fstockcarrera

Yep an aircooled 3.6 or what ever at a modest compression ration is not going to be significantly cheaper, if at all, to rebuild that a 3.6 cup motor and I would argue that the 3.6 aircooler motor at 7k is the more stressed of the two.

Yes the tires are more expensive. But having driven the varities of 911's the cup far and away the better platform and yes slightly more expensive the way I campaign it.

J richard

It's also a bit ironic that i actually paid MORE for many the street gt3 parts for the boxster build than I did for PMNA cup parts. The boxster is running around with a bunch of leftovers from the cup. Crunch the nose and the radiators, ducts, mounts, hoses, fenders, liners, lights, arms etc...will cost you exactly the same...and that's a "low cost" series.

claykos

Look, my intent wasn't to start a pissing match over whether or not a cup is cheaper than an air cooled car or a xyz.

The main point was running costs for cups vary hugely because some people run with full arrive and drive support and follow the porsche supercup maintenance intervals listed in the service manuals and some do their own work, transport the car to the track themselves and maintain the car to "normal" standards that are comparable (or better) than 99% of all race cars out there.

edit: By normal standard, I mean rebuilding things as needed and normal preventative maintenance based on things like compression/leak down numbers, crank case pressure, debris in gearbox fluid, wheel bearing play, etc rather than simply saying "oh there's 25 hours on these wheel bearings, time to change them when they have zero play because the supercup manual says they recommended freshening uprights at 25 hours".

J richard

Clay, I think the argument started several pages back...

Are you running the Bimmer next weekend?

claykos

No, I hate the west track. I'd honestly rather not race than drive on West....lol

Glen

Yes agree, completely. Thank you for clarification.

911racer

I agree that the running costs of running a cup car will vary wildly depending on who and how the car is maintained.

I can tell you that my experience with the cup cars has been a very rewarding one. Since I have (in the past) been the one putting the race car system together (always running in GT classes) I was the R&D and testing guy as well as the driver and the maintenance.

With the cup car. Because it is a factory car, no more fussing around with after market parts. Not spending a bunch of money constantly upgrading everything two or three times.

Now, my racing budget just goes for maintenance. Which is much cheaper than the constant upgrade battle.

All of that said. There is nothing cooler than showing up at the event with a cup car. Everything else is a converted street car. How much value can you put on that.

Ed

KaiB

Great point, but it is indeed FUN running with Cups in a 20 y.o. car with 115 fewer HP. Just have to drive harder...