Buy a 996 Cup Car?
04-04-2013, 02:41 PM
#32
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I wonder about making the jump from DE to Racing, in a cup car... (does that really happen?)
When I went racing there was so much 'race-craft' to learn the first couple of years. [qualifying, the start, the rest of the race and the last 2 laps...]
plus there's the likely car contact a new racer will experience. bent fenders on a E stock, vs cup...
Wheel to wheel racing distances are in inches vs car lengths... that alone takes some time to get use to.
When I went racing there was so much 'race-craft' to learn the first couple of years. [qualifying, the start, the rest of the race and the last 2 laps...]
plus there's the likely car contact a new racer will experience. bent fenders on a E stock, vs cup...
Wheel to wheel racing distances are in inches vs car lengths... that alone takes some time to get use to.
Learning racecraft is lifelong. It's developing strategic thinking, rather than tactical.
Disagree on "likely contact," most all of that "likely" is up to the driver...
Wheel to wheel starts with distances in car lengths (or widths), THEN progresses to feet (or half car lengths or widths).
Only then, progressing to inches after YOU KNOW who you're racing with.
Simple formula to avoid exposure to risk.
Still think the OP should pull the trigger, pending a positive pre-purchase inspection.
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
04-04-2013, 03:19 PM
#33
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Best reason to get the Cup (or another dedicated racing car) is the safety factor. DE is just a different name for driving a car at very high speeds - the risks are just the same as "racing", so why not protect yourself to the fullest extent possible? Spend enough time on the track and you WILL have an incident. Easy decision.
04-04-2013, 03:23 PM
#34
04-04-2013, 03:53 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Best reason to get the Cup (or another dedicated racing car) is the safety factor. DE is just a different name for driving a car at very high speeds - the risks are just the same as "racing", so why not protect yourself to the fullest extent possible? Spend enough time on the track and you WILL have an incident. Easy decision.
04-04-2013, 05:02 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Just had this conversation at lunch today with a fellow club racer who has a 993Cup. The purchase price of the car is the least amount of money in the equation. The consumables are what will eat you alive.
I bought my 996 NON-CUP race car converted from a street car from a racer who had taken the next step in the addiction when he bought a 997 Cup. He's running that in the Canadian IMSA series and likens the running costs to the hourly cost of running a Lear. It is big boy money.
As for what it costs to run my modest 996 in GTB1...my mechanic told me, "Do yourself a favor...burn the reciepts, don't add them up, have fun and tell me when/if you run out of money."
I bought my 996 NON-CUP race car converted from a street car from a racer who had taken the next step in the addiction when he bought a 997 Cup. He's running that in the Canadian IMSA series and likens the running costs to the hourly cost of running a Lear. It is big boy money.
As for what it costs to run my modest 996 in GTB1...my mechanic told me, "Do yourself a favor...burn the reciepts, don't add them up, have fun and tell me when/if you run out of money."
04-04-2013, 05:08 PM
#38
I made the switch from my 997 street car to a 996 Cup.
I can tell you, compared to the 997.2 GT3 the 996 Cup's parts are A LOT cheaper. A front brake disk costs less than half the price of the brake disk on my 997. Pads are cheaper too. Some other parts are cheaper than the street part counterpart. Bumpers on the later model 996 cups however are very expensive because they are built out of carbon fiber.
Concerning maintance, we mustn't compare apples to oranges here. Compare a 996 Cup to a 996 GT3. It will NOT be a lot cheaper to run a 996 GT3 on slicks than it will be to run a Cup car on slicks. Nor will it be cheaper to run the 996 GT3 on semislicks compared to a Cup on semislicks. Basically a 996 Cup is a stripped out GT3 street car where a lot of components have been replaced by more solid or purpose-built items (suspension for instance, even something silly as shifter cables and the shifter mechanism is more solid on a cup car than on a street GT3). Rebuilding a Cup manual gearbox or a GT3 gearbox is about the same price as they share a lot of parts.
People always warn potential Cup owners about the costs of:
-engine rebuild
-gearbox rebuild
-axles
-shocks
Do you really think that you can run a GT3 street car for let's say 200+hours on the track and not have any of those parts need replacing? I have a very good friend that drives his 997 GT3-RS very hard on the race track, most of the times on slicks. After 2 seasons he had the car undergo a winter inspection/preparation for the new season and he also ended up with a gearbox requiring a few synchros and other parts replaced, new rear axles, new shifter mechanism etc etc ( we are talking a 10K euro bill in "maintenance costs" here, without any of the usual spare parts such as brakes or tyres). I think that this was after about 60 track hours.
Engine is the same story. Porsche "dictates" a rebuild after about 60h for a Cup engine. None of this for the GT3 street engine. Does that make the GT3 street engine more solid? It's just that that kind of usage/maintenance isn't covered in the street car manual, and it is a known fact that a Cup engine can handle a lot more than 60 hours, but in professional racing nobody wants to take any risks of mechanical failure so just rebuild it before something happens.
If we talk 997 cup that's a different story, mainly due to the sequential gearbox. Now that is a potential money pit.
Want to drive an expensive Porsche racecar? Get an RSR
I can tell you, compared to the 997.2 GT3 the 996 Cup's parts are A LOT cheaper. A front brake disk costs less than half the price of the brake disk on my 997. Pads are cheaper too. Some other parts are cheaper than the street part counterpart. Bumpers on the later model 996 cups however are very expensive because they are built out of carbon fiber.
Concerning maintance, we mustn't compare apples to oranges here. Compare a 996 Cup to a 996 GT3. It will NOT be a lot cheaper to run a 996 GT3 on slicks than it will be to run a Cup car on slicks. Nor will it be cheaper to run the 996 GT3 on semislicks compared to a Cup on semislicks. Basically a 996 Cup is a stripped out GT3 street car where a lot of components have been replaced by more solid or purpose-built items (suspension for instance, even something silly as shifter cables and the shifter mechanism is more solid on a cup car than on a street GT3). Rebuilding a Cup manual gearbox or a GT3 gearbox is about the same price as they share a lot of parts.
People always warn potential Cup owners about the costs of:
-engine rebuild
-gearbox rebuild
-axles
-shocks
Do you really think that you can run a GT3 street car for let's say 200+hours on the track and not have any of those parts need replacing? I have a very good friend that drives his 997 GT3-RS very hard on the race track, most of the times on slicks. After 2 seasons he had the car undergo a winter inspection/preparation for the new season and he also ended up with a gearbox requiring a few synchros and other parts replaced, new rear axles, new shifter mechanism etc etc ( we are talking a 10K euro bill in "maintenance costs" here, without any of the usual spare parts such as brakes or tyres). I think that this was after about 60 track hours.
Engine is the same story. Porsche "dictates" a rebuild after about 60h for a Cup engine. None of this for the GT3 street engine. Does that make the GT3 street engine more solid? It's just that that kind of usage/maintenance isn't covered in the street car manual, and it is a known fact that a Cup engine can handle a lot more than 60 hours, but in professional racing nobody wants to take any risks of mechanical failure so just rebuild it before something happens.
If we talk 997 cup that's a different story, mainly due to the sequential gearbox. Now that is a potential money pit.
Want to drive an expensive Porsche racecar? Get an RSR
04-04-2013, 09:11 PM
#39
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THIS.
I remain opposed to the thought of moving from virtually anything in a DE environment, even with the thought of racing (perhaps certainly so), into a Cup.
From a driver development standpoint my observation is that several steps should be taken before entrance into the Cups - unless the driver is hell bent on spending money to go "quickly" without the effort and training one needs to truly learn the craft.
But he won't be "driving" the Cup anywhere near its potential.
As a step up from a 997, for a guy with some 60 DE days in the tank, I like the thought of something like 993PET's RSA race car. Ready to go train in, ready to race and for the same money I'd bet he would toss in his trailer.
DE this car and when you're passing the GT3s - it's time to go race!
I remain opposed to the thought of moving from virtually anything in a DE environment, even with the thought of racing (perhaps certainly so), into a Cup.
From a driver development standpoint my observation is that several steps should be taken before entrance into the Cups - unless the driver is hell bent on spending money to go "quickly" without the effort and training one needs to truly learn the craft.
But he won't be "driving" the Cup anywhere near its potential.
As a step up from a 997, for a guy with some 60 DE days in the tank, I like the thought of something like 993PET's RSA race car. Ready to go train in, ready to race and for the same money I'd bet he would toss in his trailer.
DE this car and when you're passing the GT3s - it's time to go race!
http://imsachallenge.com/season/standings/2012
http://seanjohnstonracing.com/about/
There are lots of different paths....
04-04-2013, 11:37 PM
#40
That's one route. Alternatively, you could do some sim racing, spend eight days at GT Academy, then go win the 2012 IMSA GT3 Challenge Platinum championship by winning 8 of 15 races while finishing no lower than third in all but one race:
http://imsachallenge.com/season/standings/2012
http://seanjohnstonracing.com/about/
There are lots of different paths....
http://imsachallenge.com/season/standings/2012
http://seanjohnstonracing.com/about/
There are lots of different paths....
Last edited by Glen; 04-04-2013 at 11:40 PM. Reason: Because I want to...
04-05-2013, 12:35 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
THIS.
I remain opposed to the thought of moving from virtually anything in a DE environment, even with the thought of racing (perhaps certainly so), into a Cup.
From a driver development standpoint my observation is that several steps should be taken before entrance into the Cups - unless the driver is hell bent on spending money to go "quickly" without the effort and training one needs to truly learn the craft.
But he won't be "driving" the Cup anywhere near its potential.
As a step up from a 997, for a guy with some 60 DE days in the tank, I like the thought of something like 993PET's RSA race car. Ready to go train in, ready to race and for the same money I'd bet he would toss in his trailer.
DE this car and when you're passing the GT3s - it's time to go race!
I remain opposed to the thought of moving from virtually anything in a DE environment, even with the thought of racing (perhaps certainly so), into a Cup.
From a driver development standpoint my observation is that several steps should be taken before entrance into the Cups - unless the driver is hell bent on spending money to go "quickly" without the effort and training one needs to truly learn the craft.
But he won't be "driving" the Cup anywhere near its potential.
As a step up from a 997, for a guy with some 60 DE days in the tank, I like the thought of something like 993PET's RSA race car. Ready to go train in, ready to race and for the same money I'd bet he would toss in his trailer.
DE this car and when you're passing the GT3s - it's time to go race!
04-05-2013, 02:41 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Quote:
DE this car and when you're passing the GT3s - it's time to go race!
That's one route. Alternatively, you could do some sim racing, spend eight days at GT Academy, then go win the 2012 IMSA GT3 Challenge Platinum championship by winning 8 of 15 races while finishing no lower than third in all but one race:
http://imsachallenge.com/season/standings/2012
http://seanjohnstonracing.com/about/
There are lots of different paths.... Quote
Or just be 17 years old and finish second. But Madison Snow did do the Kart and then Spec Miata courses first .
I would recommend racing something else first, then get a Cup. It works better.
DE this car and when you're passing the GT3s - it's time to go race!
That's one route. Alternatively, you could do some sim racing, spend eight days at GT Academy, then go win the 2012 IMSA GT3 Challenge Platinum championship by winning 8 of 15 races while finishing no lower than third in all but one race:
http://imsachallenge.com/season/standings/2012
http://seanjohnstonracing.com/about/
There are lots of different paths.... Quote
Or just be 17 years old and finish second. But Madison Snow did do the Kart and then Spec Miata courses first .
I would recommend racing something else first, then get a Cup. It works better.
04-05-2013, 08:17 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
That's one route. Alternatively, you could do some sim racing, spend eight days at GT Academy, then go win the 2012 IMSA GT3 Challenge Platinum championship by winning 8 of 15 races while finishing no lower than third in all but one race:
http://imsachallenge.com/season/standings/2012
http://seanjohnstonracing.com/about/
There are lots of different paths....
http://imsachallenge.com/season/standings/2012
http://seanjohnstonracing.com/about/
There are lots of different paths....
I changed my entire lifestyle in preparation for any opportunity in life that might come my way. It started to pay off during the GT Academy, and it’s certainly paying off this racing season. I’ve furthered my commitment and truly made racing the sole focus of my life. I structure my life around developing my ability to drive a race car competitively and I’m loving it. I know my dream is big, but I’m keeping my head down, taking each step as it comes, and working as hard as I can every day to get me closer to my dream. Pursuing my passion in this capacity has been the most fulfilling experience of my life, and there’s every reason to continue.
So yeah, it's possible. But how many are ready to dedicate their lives to making that leap? Most would benefit from a more progressive learning curve.
04-05-2013, 08:21 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
Best reason to get the Cup (or another dedicated racing car) is the safety factor. DE is just a different name for driving a car at very high speeds - the risks are just the same as "racing", so why not protect yourself to the fullest extent possible? Spend enough time on the track and you WILL have an incident. Easy decision.
04-05-2013, 12:53 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Here is a quote from Sean Johnson's website:
I changed my entire lifestyle in preparation for any opportunity in life that might come my way. It started to pay off during the GT Academy, and it’s certainly paying off this racing season. I’ve furthered my commitment and truly made racing the sole focus of my life. I structure my life around developing my ability to drive a race car competitively and I’m loving it. I know my dream is big, but I’m keeping my head down, taking each step as it comes, and working as hard as I can every day to get me closer to my dream. Pursuing my passion in this capacity has been the most fulfilling experience of my life, and there’s every reason to continue.
So yeah, it's possible. But how many are ready to dedicate their lives to making that leap? Most would benefit from a more progressive learning curve.
I changed my entire lifestyle in preparation for any opportunity in life that might come my way. It started to pay off during the GT Academy, and it’s certainly paying off this racing season. I’ve furthered my commitment and truly made racing the sole focus of my life. I structure my life around developing my ability to drive a race car competitively and I’m loving it. I know my dream is big, but I’m keeping my head down, taking each step as it comes, and working as hard as I can every day to get me closer to my dream. Pursuing my passion in this capacity has been the most fulfilling experience of my life, and there’s every reason to continue.
So yeah, it's possible. But how many are ready to dedicate their lives to making that leap? Most would benefit from a more progressive learning curve.
I do agree, that is probably better to start in a slower than Cup racecar to try to reach most of you potential. The faster the car, the further away you will drive it from full potential. If you are not "winning" your DEs, you will get creamed at a Cup Car race (PCA) and will be 3-5 secs off pace
