Coco_951

My disclaimer is I haven't driven a DE in many years but here are my 2 cents. First a cup car is the safest car you can have on a race track, period! Second maintenance cost is directly related to level of performance - any car driven at limit will be more expensive to keep on the track. Third and most important the theory that cups are more difficult to master versus other cars is BS. If you are an experienced DE driver and thinking club racing I'd make the jump now to the cup car and invest in good coaching. I'd rather learn driving a cup in a "safe" DE environment versus P1 at a Sebring club race! Taking horsepower out of the equation the newer the Porsche platform the easier it drives on the track. My RSA was much more of a handful versus my 996 cup, more rewarding too! Good 996 cup prices will turn the corner soon and start heading north. Good luck!

Mister C

[quote=fstockcarrera;10358470]Thanks for the information Bob. I don't see too many posts disclosing actual running costs. It seems many don't even keep track. Perhaps they don't really want to know or have their SO find out what they are spending. It's like fight club.

I would love to have a cup car but I am still a rank beginner. Maybe some years down the road after a lot more seat time.

Cheers,

Michael

fstockcarrera

^^^
This

KaiB

But HP does indeed play a role as has been discussed ad nauseum here.

I'm a big advocate for staged driver development and have seen personally too many cases of rapid advancement into Cups where drivers seem to hit a plateau - and never transcend it.

The simple fact is they haven't developed into skilled drivers because they didn't stage their learning along the way.

And yes, the 964 platform does indeed reward...I could easily campaign a Cup for what I have into mine, but it's just way too much fun.

Jarez Mifkin

A factory racecar is a factory racecar. Period. If you have the chance to own one, own one. You will be rewarded greatly with it. 996 cups have gone 200+ hours on motors without rebuilds and look fantastic when they get rebuilt. Search the forum for posts from Glen, the man has fantastic knowledge of these cars and I suggest you read some of his posts to be more informed about them.

Just remember, everything is faster in a Cup, everything. Acceleration, braking, shifting, passing, (the concrete wall in the rain coming up the esses at Road Atlanta 6 minutes after you bought a set of rain tires...but I digress)

Everything is more expensive too. Damage repair, consumables, etc. The faster you go, the more expensive things are, but if you aren't pushing the car to its limits then the brakes are going to last and the tires are going to last.

I've heard many people say that their car doesn't use brakes, it's them that's not using the brakes, not the car. The car only uses what the driver can throw at it.

I could keep going, but the just of it is that I had a factory car, had fun with it and I now miss it dearly. (Just glad it was a 964 that I was in when I backed into the wall instead my RSR)

GTgears

I'm with those who say that if your agenda is to Club race a Cup, buy the Cup and learn to drive it before you race it.

I see all this talk of a DE being a poor training environment for such a fast car. Around here a lot of us attend open track days, where coaches are welcome. If it were me, I would be paying for half days of instruction outside of the usual PCA/NASA DE venues. You will still want to attend some of their DEs and go through their licensing program and get to know how they operate their racing. But if I had a Cup I would be spending more on educating myself with fewer moving chicanes around. DEs are crowded because they are cheap. Spend more money and get more privacy.

J richard

Interesting responses,

First it starts with you:

Perhaps some here know you but i dont think we have enough info to give you proper advice;where are you located? What tracks are you going to run, and with what groups? What specifically are you currently driving, with what mods and on what rubber? what run group? Are you consistently running with the front runners in your run group? How serious are you about racing and with what org?

Then the car:

I wouldn't hesitate to get a cup with 50 hrs if it was properly maintained. Just as important on the hours is how those hours were spent. You do want to get the ECU read, every time I see xx-xxx hours it means someone is guessing an ECU read will tell you the real number, A history of hard over revs is worse than higher hours. Total times on components like the clutch and axles need attention as they can cause bigger problems/damage. If your shop knows the foibles of cups and knows the car then you should be ok. A leakdown and compression as well as a dyno will tell you the true condition. Get the spare wheels, you need two sets minimum.

Then the costs:

You can shade tree a cup if you have the mechanical ability and the time. But even getting factory parts isn't easy unless you are a shop. You can't run these on pump gas so figure you fuel costs will double 50gallons at $8 is $400...No one goes to the track to drive slow so over a full weekend you will cycle out a set of slicks, that's $1500-$2500 depending on your selection. Pads and rotors are more than the street car but most track prepped cars will run the same stuff so close to the same for comparison. The bigger issues as was said are broken splitters, axles, clutches, wheel hoops...and then reserves for engine and gearbox rebuilds, at $30k (cheap) for both and 150hrs (50% more than facfory rec.) you are looking at conservatively $200 an hour of running time. All this is assuming you aren't hard on equipment, listen to your coach and don't hit anything.

A cup is just not comparable to a street car, not even close. A 997 on street tires has all kinds of driver aids specifically designed to make it easier to drive and will tell the driver when you are getting close to limits with plenty in reserve. A cup is exactly opposite, the limits are much higher and when you get to them the car has given you all it's got. I would consider getting a cup and re springing it to soften the learning curve and then going back to the spec rates as you get to know it. I think the slicks and the spring rates are the biggest difference from a spec 996 or street track car.

You can jump into the deep end of the pool with a cup, but you have to do it right or it will bite you:

1. Have a shop that knows cups set up and run the car for you, especially early on
2. GET A COACH, especially early on
3. Keep the car on good robber
4. GET A COACH
5. Keep in front of maintenance and components
6. GET A COACH
7. A well set up cup by default will take the variables of the car out of the equation so focus on developing your skills so you will want data in the car and someon to interpret it...so
8. GET A COACH

Anyway they are great cars, if you have the means and the drive go for it. Just don't fool yourself that it's just a little more than a street car. I always got out of my other race/track cars smiling and thinking how much fun it was. Out of the cup I'm almost vibrating, thinking over every detail of the last laps and how I drove technically and how the car reacted and what in need to do next time out, temps, pressures, shock settings...You dont just go out and tool around the track. It is two different experiences, question is which one would you enjoy more?

Adam@Autometrics

I admittedly didn't read every response, but operating costs and speed can be brought more in line with a GT3 street car by simply running Hoosiers and making appropriate setup changes. When you get closer to racing, you revert to the original configuration and slicks (preferably at T&T or open track days.)

Veloce Raptor

I believe this is an excellent agenda...

Gary R.

Adam - I was reading through this whole thing wondering if that was a viable alternative the entire time! To me, for a DE guy that "may" go racing, why not start that way? For me, I agree with the thought of buying that super-prepared H car for sale here...

ProCoach

EXCELLENT over-arching, big-picture view and advice. Bottom line, assemble and use the prodigious resources available to you to enhance and accelerate the best possible outcome.

MORE great advice. Graduated in costs and capability to ease learning.

cgomez

Agree, but the faster the car the higher the costs, and it becomes exponential. Tires for sure will be 2X.
The other mechanical and maintenance expenses are same order of magnitude to running a relatively modern 911 (996 or 997) or Cayman (986, 987), if you follow a regular maintenance schedule that's already predefined in a Cup Car: Gearbox and Engine refresh every X hours etc.
In converted street cars to racecars, most people just dont use a maintenance schedule for the major items like gearbox and engine, and just wait until there's major failure and replace the whole item (engine at $15K and Gearboxes at $7K aprox?). Not necessarily a bad financial decision given that those drivetrains are relattively cheap and easy to find good rebuild. However, it is a terrible decision not to do the schedule refresh on a Cup, whose drivetrain (engine+box) replacement costs almost the whole value of the used car ($70k+ for sure).

KaiB

I WISH my engine and gearbox were $15K and $7K...

Glen

All I know is this...as Corey said, safest platform I know of You can race. Cheapest platform I have ever raced...
Most reliable platform Ive ever driven...

New 991 Cup, @ 300k delivered or so...

Old cups will likely never be cheaper...imho...

mrbill_fl

I wonder about making the jump from DE to Racing, in a cup car... (does that really happen?)

When I went racing there was so much 'race-craft' to learn the first couple of years. [qualifying, the start, the rest of the race and the last 2 laps...]


plus there's the likely car contact a new racer will experience. bent fenders on a E stock, vs cup...


Wheel to wheel racing distances are in inches vs car lengths... that alone takes some time to get use to.