Juan Lopez

Problem is when development ( car and driver ) get confused with cheating.

67King

I think the rules change period is coming up soon. I'm going to suggest a couple of things which would make it more open. Never been through the submit/review process before, so I don't know what to expect. But perhaps if other folks suggested similar things, it may make running as an SP3 next year an option. I think the transmission is the biggest thing, but I find it interesting that the 968 carries a 190 pound penalty over the Turbo in E-stock, but runs at the same weight in SP3. That and the fact that few racetracks will use more than 3 gears, regardless, makes my PERSONAL opinion that any 944 based transmission should be free. Personally, I'm not going to use a 968 tranny - too heavy and the gearing is inferior to an S2 R&P w/ a Turbo 5th gear, execept at Daytona where they'll reach their top speed. But, we race at Daytona, and the 6 speed probably would be an advantage there, so I understand why they do segregate the two. Maybe they'd allow a 968 engine wiht a 5 speed, but not the other engines wiht a 6 speed, I don't know.

I'd suggest your friend start some dialogue with both Walt and Dave. They both seem quite reasonable, but I do get the impression that workign with them ahead of time, and following the protocol is going to be a whole lot more productive than trying the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" approach.

pmcrespo

Super time Earnie! And this dovetails back onto what Juan addresses. Develpment of car and sometimes more importantly, the driver, is a huge variable. And at times, a fast totally legal driver is inevitably suspect by some. Totally understand and agree. But you also have the other camp. I am just saying enforcement of HP/wt is a challenge. Not impossible though.

But going back to the thread fundamentals, I just would like to see the 4 cyl water cooled NA cars get a little better index/weight handicap because as it stands today I dont think the intent of achieving somewhat of a theoreticaly similar HP/wt ratio by class breaks down with 944/968 4-cyl water cooled vs 911 based 6-cyl air cooled.

Ernie J

Pablo, that time was set with a 210 hp engine,sealed ecu. If I set up for a GT5 engine with a few modifications, 280 hp is possible.

Astroman

Who was GT5? Last year, Hupfer set a new E class record of 2:10.2 at WG. According to Rennpoints, the SP3 record is 11.3. GT5S is 9.4.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me like SP3 cars are comparable to F cars (E cars with less weight).

KaiB

I know what PCA thinks is possible, but what is real life horsepower for a 4 cyl water cooled engine.

Top shelf from a great builder, what can you guys get...say for a 50 hour engine?

We could easily get the theoretical 396 out of mine, but I shudder at the cost - and maintenance. As stated above though, at a certain point in the GT game, it's all driver.

Juan Lopez

Mark Hupfer is a great driver and his car impecably prepared by the same guys that maintain mine... 901Shop

pmcrespo

In NASA GTS-2 at about 205-210 rwhp running at 3,050 pounds I ran at 2:10.2 at The Glen. I may be able to get under 10 today in the same car but in GT5S trim. Although I am not sure if the added 20 or so rwhp and increased aero I have today will get me there. And of course, I may not be as good a driver as those that hold or are close to the track record in class.

280 rwhp out of what engine? 3.0L NA?

Even if one could reasonably get 275 rwhp out of a water cooled 3.0, I go back to the formula fundamentals and my question: Driver and all else equally setup and dveveloped, and given todays GT5S formula, would one expect a 968/944 with 275 rwhp running 3,100 pounds to be faster than a 911 with 280-320 rwhp running 2,200 - 2,700 pounds? The naswers to this I know will be ALL OVER the place with all sorts of conditions and track configuartions, etc, but on average...

pmcrespo

Last year before I jumped in first ever season with PCA, I put together a small simple spreadsheet to play with the different combinations in GT and have an idea of what to expect.

Obviously the "Estimated Real HP" assumptions, are just that, but I'll share it with all you so you can use it as a tool if you feel it is of any benefit. Cheers!

PCA Club Racing GT-1 to 5 Calculator.zip

If you rather not deal with zip files, just sent me an email and I'll send it directly to ya... It would not let me upload .xlsx (excel) file.

944Cup

SP3 is based off of the 944 Super Cup which is an East Coast based series. Little happening that far west in SP2 or 3.

A 944 Super Cup rules clarification was made this past week which explains that transmissions for 5 speed Super Cup models are interchangeable.

Ernie J

Pablo, I run at 2750 lbs in SP-3, 280 hp ,yes its possible. OOPS ,its was Hamlin, not Huffer. just looked at one race from each of us. If you spend the time on the 944 SP-3 car, as the 911's have had you could get down to a 2.09 ish lap,I believe.968 @ 3000 lbs plus that would be tough. You need to pick the right combo to begin with.

Chaos

If a random dyno shows up at PCA races,stay clear of the exiting stampede...

67King

Sorry, Dave, wasn't trying to muddy it up or confuse anyone, but rather address the OP's options. And again, tried to make it clear that I was expressing a personal opinion. But to save the trouble, there is a 968 engine in an S2 body with what is believed to be an S2 5-speed. Don't believe it would be eligible in any manner in SP3 or SC for this year. Not sure if any rules that would be necessary to make it legal would be considered in the future.

67King

280 horsepower from a stock S2 with just a header?

Ernie J

No, you are not going get 280 hp with a stock engine that is legal for SP-3.If you mod it for GT-5 ,yes.