GT3DE

Solo at your third event? Never should have happened. More like 10 or 20+ events before you should solo.

dasams

That was my takeaway: NASA is great for racing and experienced HPDE drivers. Since I'm neither, it was not the best place for me. As I posted earlier, when I reach HPDE 3, I'll be back.

SiberianDVM

I have 10 track days (5 weekends) with PCA Carolina, Peachstate, and Coastal Empire, and just now got moved to Blue (Instructed) for my next DE with Florida Crown PCA. And I'm nervous about that.

Sometimes I feel like I am the world's slowest learner, and other guys are the second coming of Ayrton Senna.

mglobe

NASA is great for racing. I really can't comment on how good they are for DE's in your region. Different organization's events sometimes suit different drivers. Some may offer less congestion, some more track time, some better/more consistent instruction for beginners, some offer advanced instruction some don't,... Some programs are not doubtfully safer than others, but sometimes that safety comes at a logistical cost to the driver. It's up to each person to decide what fits them best. Horses for courses.

sbelles

Not third event. Third day. If I were the NASA region DE chair, I would take steps to ensure that doesn't happen.

Steve113

Unfortunately the whole DE industry is not the same. Some group emphasize that it’s not about speed and there is a learning process. Line ,awareness and car control must be mastered before true speed is allowed to develop. Today’s cars are way to track advanced ( as in fast) to think there are any short cuts to be had. There is nothing like having a knowledgeable instructor / coach next to you constructively watching your driving.

The other issue that has to be worked on by all organizations is to have instructors that are at the driving level they should be and to have the same philosophy instilled in them. There is no reason beginners, intermediate and some advanced drivers should feel ashamed or bashful about asking for a good qualified instructor any time. There should be no stigma to having a second set of eyes helping you master the sport.

I have instructed pro teams so if pro's are ok with a coach then everyone else should look at it as a immense help not a hindrance.

My 2 cents

dasams

This was the philosophy of HOD and one in which I fully agree. My primary goal during last Sat's event was driving the line at a controlled speed (HOD calls it driving at 7/10's) to build confidence and experience. I expect the upcoming PCA event to be similar and I'll be with an instructor all day. Not that age should matter, but I'm 55 and safety is my #1 goal. Dave

MayorAdamWest

Cost is another issue. What is the cost of the PCA weekend? NASA is pretty affordable at Round 200/day with an instructor. I remember it being cost prohibitive for how frequently I wanted to go to the track.

mglobe

I'm sorry, but if you still need an instructor after 10 to 20 events, I'd suggest bowling.

edit: What I should have said is that if you are not solo after 10 to 20 events, go hang with The Dude.

Mahler9th

Be careful of absolutes concepts, for example that it is inappropriate to go solo early on. I started at LRP in a PCA event in 1987 without AX or karts or anything else. But I was well-prepared through careful study and I was intensely focused on learning the craft, not thrillseeking and such. I could have gone alone in the afternoon and been fine.

What I learned many, many years ago is that if you really want to learn and leverage resources, it is best to put yourself in an environment where the majority of other drivers and the staff (e.g., instructors) are of the same mindset. PCA events are highly leveraged in this regard. I have done PCA DE's back east and in the midwest in the 80's, and I came here to CA in the 90's.

The GGR time trial series which I first tried in 1995 has a long history of this type of focus. The current CDI is a friend (I think I instructed him at some point) and he has carried this tradition through to today. In the paddock, in addition to all of the fun social discussions, there is usually a lot of technical talk and focus. When I was running TT's, this all lead up to the Sunday solo time trial runs.

With other groups, NCRC, Trackmasters, HOD, NASA and so on, the focus is usually more dilute. A greater number of people are there just for an "experience" or "thrill." Or "to see what their car can do." This can also be true for clubs like the CCA. All of these businesses and clubs have great events and great instructors and caring staffs. But in many cases, more than a few folks won't have the same attitudes about their driving and/or instructing and so on as you will find in many PCA DE's.

I have heard instructors in other groups tell students that "turns 3, 4, 5 and 6 at Laguna are all basically 90 degrees." That is wrong and sloppy instructing.

I have heard "lead instructors" with other groups say "no one here today really has to brake for turn 1." This happened at Thunderhill once when I observed a morning meeting. I had to intervene. The guy tried to argue with me. He meant well, but his attention to detail was lacking. Half the students in the students in the meeting stayed behind to ask me to go over the line once again.

If you really want to leverage the resources, it can be helpful to go to places where the vast majority of folks are there for the same reason.

996TWINS

The OP had the same experience I had with NASA. Too many cars and different skill levels by combining HPDE1 and 2. Get some track time run in HPDE 3.

Gary R.

I'm confused. You state "had my first track day in Jan at Thunderhill and my second in Feb at Sonoma Raceway. Both were with HookedOnDriving in the beginner group and I had an instructor all day." Then, this statement - "During my first outing with HoD (which one would assume is the Thunderhill day where you said you "had an instructor all day"), I was promoted to Solo." Which was it? Even with at total of three track days, getting "promoted" at all borders on criminal IMO. As for your NASA experience, i've only been to one NASA HPDE, was in the upper run group, and left at 1/2 day because the track was full of reckless idiots in everything from a Honda to an Audi wagon. Of the close to 100 DE's i've attended the last 7 years, it's the only one I ever left early from...

Mahler9th

Back when I started here in CA, the GGR usually got February dates for Sears Point. The CDI (Tom Van Overbeek if I recall correctly) told me that they expect 1-2 totalled cars per weekend. I wanted to try Sears Point, but the weather reports were always threatening when I wanted to sign up. And it did indeed rain. I remember one Saturday in February I drove up to watch and the rains came in mid-morning. They had a meeting and decided to drive. Within an hour or two they lost several cars.

So I decided to give NASA a try so I could drive at Sears in the dry. I decided on group 1-2 because I thought the passing rules in groups 3 or 4 would be too much of a distraction as I learned the line. I was already pretty far up the experience ladder with the GGR.

Well, group 1-2 was inappropriate. The first two sessions were just parade laps. There was even a Toyota pick up truck with raised suspension and knobby tires in the group. Drivers were safe, but just too slow for me.

For my next try with NASA at Sears Point, I brought along a friend/mentor with an IMSA prepped, ex- Firehawk champion 944. He was my personal instructor and we drove in group 3. This went much better. I leveraged my resources.

Gary R.

Mike - I would re-think that as a blanket statement. Do you feel everyone running in White or Black (or even Red-Instructor) wouldn't benefit from some input from the right seat? I will always want input from good drivers as there is ALWAYS room for my improvement. Driving consistency can go several ways, and one of them is consistently wrong...

And for clarity our groups are -
Green - rank beginner instructed
Yellow - beginner instructed
Yellow Solo - beginner signed off to run solo
White - advanced solo
Black - very advanced solo
Red - Instructors

mglobe

Everyone can always benefit from having an instructor in the car, including instructors, so yes I misspoke. I should have said that if you are not solo by 10 to 20 events you should consider bowling.