Streak

I gotta disagree Gary. There is a reasonable expectation on the part of the fans that they won't die by coming to a race. When you sit in the bleachers to watch PCA races do you expect you'll be maimed? There are barriers and fencing which lead me and the fans to believe that they are safe. In this case the fence failed or was hit just wrong and the tire went over the fence. No spectator should fill out their last will and testament before the green flag drops. At a smaller dirt track maybe but this is Daytona.

I do agree that nascar has become a spectacle of crashes and in the post race interview it seems these young drivers are conditioned to just ram thru cars. That has to exacerbate the situation.

Are these the "new" cars? I'm wondering if the aerodynamics played a part. I admittedly don't watch a lot of Nascar but I don't recall cars getting that high off the ground in the past.

stownsen914

Still no reports of fatalities as of this morning. I hope it stays that way ... 28 injured though - yikes ...

mglobe

This was the Nationwide series. It's the Sprint Cup that got the new cars this year, so no, not the new cars.

VaSteve

The nationwide cars are based on the gen5 COT so they shouldn't have gone airborne like that if solo. It was pushed from behind....thats what did it. A freak accident. Still shouldnt have happend.

mglobe

NASCAR of course needs to look into the accident and figure out what if anything could be done to avoid both the wreck and the involvement of spectators. In the end though, there will always be some risk associated with racing for both drivers and fans. I suspect that the wreck that killed Dan Weldon could have easily gone the same way in terms of fan involvement.

67King

Speed is reporting that all injuries are non-life threatening, which is great news!

I have to disagree with Gary, as well. Fans should expect the facility and sanctioning body have taken all reasonable efforts to ensure their safety. The cars and tracks, IMHO, would certainly qualify for this. NASCAR has done some things to make the environment more safe, but they've failed to address the biggest problem at these tracks - the tendecy of the cars to get bunched up in big packs. And their red flagging the race so they could do a one or two lap sprint make the problem much worse. That decision is, IMHO, gross negligence.

SeanR

King, you do realize the reason they are in those packs is due to restrictor plates right? If they didn't slow the cars down as they have, they would be doing 225-250mph and that isn't going to be safe for anyone, driver or fan.

TXE36

Note at 0:39:


Wow.

Judging by the empty seats, they are very lucky this didn't happen during the big race. Prayers to those involved.

-Mike

hf1

The spectator, all giddy with excitement as the crash was developing: "Ooo, here we go!"

This is not racing but a demolition derby. Disgusting.

TXE36

Maybe the cars are too safe. Ram the wrecking cars to get to the finish line? -- that's nuts. Perhaps if they weren't effectively driving high performance tanks they would have a bit more common sense. It amounts to driving a 3000lb/800HP car in video game "GOD MODE".

I generally enjoy NASCAR, but man, this is pathetic.

I also can't help but think the catch fence acts like a cheese grater when this kind of thing happens. The front end of that car was literally cut off. Perhaps something like the hockey rink plexiglass would work better?

-Mike

Vonschmidt

I agree this is not racing IMHO. Video is back up guess backlash made them change their position

onefastviking

I'll take the opposite side and agree with Gary. You must expect some potential for it to happen. You can expect the odds to be low on getting hurt or killed as a fan, but the risk reward IS there. You sit close, there is increased risk.
If you've seen the fences, safer walls, etc etc etc that NASCAR has built into the speedways you know they have limited the risk potential, but some risk is still there always. If you are not good with that risk then get bleacher seats or stay home and watch it on TV.

It's no different than going to an NBA game and being seated front row under the net, odds are good that you are going to see a 6-7 footer up close sooner or later, maybe even on your lap. Risk = Reward and Reward=Risk. You want the sounds and views up close under the starter stands, there is some risk to be assumed.

I would venture to say you are still less at risk for something happening there at the track then on the ride home from the track. Especially from watching the video and seeing how careful the amateur cameraman was to NOT put down or even spill his bear while filming.-This guy WILL be driving home down the highway after the race, now that's scary !

Just my personal opinions and thoughts, it is what it is.
I'm glad no one got killed, I pray that no one has lasting injuries from this incident, and I commend Tony S. for his humbleness in not celebrating the victory and being concerned for those in need at the end of that race.

V

ltc

The France family controls both the sanctioning body (NASCAR) and (most of) the tracks, in ths case Daytona.
They define the "technical regulations" for both the cars and track design.

It would be a simple matter of slowing down the cars (smaller engines, limited gear ratios, etc) and/or reducing the banking/ reconfiguring the track or redesigning the containment structures ( which would impact viewing and eliminate seating capacity)

Simple physics leads you to the conclusion that the fence is not able to contain a stock car at these speeds and that restrictor plates don't help. Drivers have been saying this for years.

However, it is an entertainment business, nothing even remotely close to a world class Motorsports organization. Steel wheels, carbs, nothing on the car that is "stock". It is Vince McMahon Motorsports with story lines, competition yellows, one lap restarts/sprints to the finish...

The France family is no different than the Roman emperors and the Colliseum. Give the people what they want and you control them; in this case towards a financial end.

Anyone who didnt see this coming someday has had their heads in the sand. Hopefully this, along with lawsuits, will force a change, but I doubt it.

Properly done accident investigations (re: NTSB) always provide valuable lessons learned and required changes. In the case of NASCAR, this does not occur.

hf1

^This. I have no problem with anyone supplying what is demanded on the market for a profit, but calling NASCAR racing would be the equivalent of calling WWF wrestling. To each their own, I guess.

67King

Yes, but over the course of a race, there become more smaller packs. Every time there is a restart, the pack becomes "one." And we know that as the end of the race approaches, there is a lot more shuffling, blocking, risk taking, etc. How many restrictor plate races do we see multiple, multiple car accidents in the last 10 laps?

Like I had said, I was watching the last part of the race. There was a "big one" with under 5 laps to go. I had tried to count the number of cars still left inthe field, and it was somewhere in the low to mid 20's. So half the field had alread been taken out. That wreck took out several more cars.

NASCAR red flagged teh race so they could get a green flag finish.

Then you had fewer than 20 cars starting a 2 lap sprint. Insufficient time for them to get spread out to any meaningful degree. The result was that an accident at the front took out 13 cars. Tony Stewart was the only guy not way behind who made it through. A few other guys for some reason got way behind, and drove through pit lane. Not sure how that happened, but again, this wreck effecitvely took out all but one guy. ONE GUY. Somethin' ain't right with that.

The attrition to that race shows that there is a problem. And I'm not sure how to fix it, but again, I'm of the opinion that the insistence of a g/w/c finish is a MAJOR factor in the number of cars that get caught up in these "big ones." The prior wreck wasn't as bad, because though there were more cars in the field, the pack was more spread out, (presumably) giving drivers more time to react.

On the restrictor plate, I suppose the way I'd say that is that I think the extra speed is the lesser of the evils. Furthermore, we've had them for 20 years, and there have been all kinds of complaints. Some alternative suggestions, such as smaller engines for these tracks - the engines are already different anyway, it isn't like they take a normal engine and just throw a plate on there. Frankly, I don't really know that removing them would change much - aerodynamics are the absolute biggest factor, here. So I guess I"m thinking that if drafting works with 450 horsepower at 200MPH, I'd expect it to work just as well with 900 horsepower at 230MPH.

I don't know a whole lot about aerodynamics, but is there nothing than can be done? Shape changes to allow the air to stay atachedto the car? Rear diffusers that allow air from under the car to move back up? Front downforce that requires air to flow over it to function better?