Paging all driving coaches
02-07-2013, 10:38 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Well, ive been co-riding and unofficially coaching for years, only in the last year actually working as a paid instructor, and i can say that i would not let the student ride solo until those horrible habits are corrected to my satisfaction. there is always an element of danger to the job, but when i am in the passenger seat as an instructor, even when i have a 60 or 70 year old student in a ferrari or whatever, "i" am in charge and i get my point across in a firm but friendly manner. To fail at that is to be doing a disservice to your student. i would love to ride with this gentlman and make him a better and safer driver. He is a blank canvas and a perfect opportunity! To say "its only a DE" is extremely concerning and warrants a whole other lecture!
02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
#62
Nordschleife Master
The funny thing is, i dont believe this novice driver needs to suit up to that level. At his stage, the focus should be on the very basics. He should not yet even have the opportunity to be driving at speeds where i would say, ok, its time for a suit and hans device. He either needs someone who can humble him and correct the behavoir without scaring him away, or, he needs to be sent away. The tradegy is when he is sent away, because he will not have learned anything. i work with a lot of instructors, most of which have more experience than me, and while all of them can help you reduce laptimes, only a few of them, of which id like to count myself, enjoy the challene of working with someone who refuses to listen. At that point, its no longer about teaching lines and hand position, now its an excersise in pyscology - and most instructors just give up when they get a student who doesnt listen.
02-07-2013, 10:50 PM
#63
Nordschleife Master
I freaking hate typing on a tablet.
I wanted to say also, that its dangerous to justify the level of safety equipmetm becuase it "just a DE"
Its fine to run a slower novice group with reduced safety gear if you are running under direct supervision at a reduced speed. And again, if yo take the event seriously, that fine.
But when you dont have the right equipment, AND you downplay the potential danger of the event, you are literally asking for a serious injury.
I wanted to say also, that its dangerous to justify the level of safety equipmetm becuase it "just a DE"
Its fine to run a slower novice group with reduced safety gear if you are running under direct supervision at a reduced speed. And again, if yo take the event seriously, that fine.
But when you dont have the right equipment, AND you downplay the potential danger of the event, you are literally asking for a serious injury.
02-07-2013, 11:09 PM
#64
Nordschleife Master
I won't volunteer too much info, the driver is a friend and can post if he wants. His instructor tried several times to point out his shortcomings. Some people can't or won't allow themselves to listen. I improved my lap times by six seconds using the very same instructor, didn't put a single wheel out all weekend. At one point the instructor even pulled the driver and his wife aside and had a "heart-to-heart" with both. His exact words: "I love you, but you're an accident waiting to happen."
There's a lesson here for all of us fellow instructors: convey your message in a concise and direct manner, and don't let emotion get in the way. I would have asked the driver firmly to cut that BS. If he didn't comply, I'd spoken to the event organizer and sit him down for the day.
And as a student: listen to your instructor, and try to apply his advise.
My friend has taken this very lightly and has tried to use every excuse in the book, from "bad tires" to "my car has no harness, only 2-point seatbelts". My fear is he hasn't realized yet that his driving is reckless and that he has serious issues. I sincerely hope this is a wakeup call for him. Flame on.
BTW, the driver was solo in the filmed laps.
There's a lesson here for all of us fellow instructors: convey your message in a concise and direct manner, and don't let emotion get in the way. I would have asked the driver firmly to cut that BS. If he didn't comply, I'd spoken to the event organizer and sit him down for the day.
And as a student: listen to your instructor, and try to apply his advise.
My friend has taken this very lightly and has tried to use every excuse in the book, from "bad tires" to "my car has no harness, only 2-point seatbelts". My fear is he hasn't realized yet that his driving is reckless and that he has serious issues. I sincerely hope this is a wakeup call for him. Flame on.
BTW, the driver was solo in the filmed laps.
Again, the tradegy would be for this man to be so embarassed, that he never comes ot again, and is never able to improve his driving.
02-08-2013, 12:00 AM
#67
Originally, I thought you guys were mean to pick on a guy that clearly needs an instructor in the worse way, but given the many friends he has here and the fact he is not a novice and unwilling to listen, then he should not be let back on a track. I wouldn't want to be on the same track with him.
What is his problem? Is it because he can afford a car many others cannot? Is it age? Is it because he can afford to leave the car at the track in the event he crashes it? Does he look down on instructors?
What is his problem? Is it because he can afford a car many others cannot? Is it age? Is it because he can afford to leave the car at the track in the event he crashes it? Does he look down on instructors?
02-08-2013, 12:02 AM
#68
Race Car
Wow, that driver was not solo? usually students don't have suits....
There's really some bad form there. maybe he's just rusty, but..
I know I couldn't allow lap after lap of that....
the driver needs to slow down and get back to basics. or yeah, he's going to crash out.
maybe Friends shouldn't instruct Friends either.
There's really some bad form there. maybe he's just rusty, but..
I know I couldn't allow lap after lap of that....
the driver needs to slow down and get back to basics. or yeah, he's going to crash out.
maybe Friends shouldn't instruct Friends either.
02-08-2013, 12:32 AM
#69
Rennlist Member
I have no idea what this means. I bought my first 911 in Dec, did my first DE in Jan (Thunderhill). He's in his 60's (according to an earlier post), I'm 55. I'm not a novice either having been driving for 40 yrs. But I have never, and I mean never, done the things he displayed in the video. Very scary and I wouldn't want to be on the track with him, period. Regardless of age and experience, if he's driving a GT2 like that, he should be barred until such time as he can prove he can safely drive on a track. Dave
02-08-2013, 01:49 AM
#70
Rennlist Member
you know i watch videos like that it makes me sometimes just ask you coaching guys....how in the world do you sleep at night knowing that the next day you might be getting in the passenger seat of some lunatic like that, who has no idea the risks to which he is exposing himself, has no idea how poor of a driver he is...and yet you are along for the ride.
i give you coaches the utmost respect for your dedication to clients, giving back and assuming such risks. on the other hand, i must ask, WTF is wrong with you guys???? granted this guy is an exception, but id imagine there are a lot of yahoos like that in the white learning groups.
i give you coaches the utmost respect for your dedication to clients, giving back and assuming such risks. on the other hand, i must ask, WTF is wrong with you guys???? granted this guy is an exception, but id imagine there are a lot of yahoos like that in the white learning groups.
). Nor have I had any coaching client simply do zero % of what I suggest. Some folks adapt better than others. Some climb out of their comfort zone better than others. And thus, for some, the learning/improvement curve is steeper than others. I have had one client who I was unable to improve, but subsequently others have helped him, and I am gratified that his driving is now on par with what I thought his potential to be.In short, I have never had a client like the camera car.
02-08-2013, 02:51 AM
#71
Three Wheelin'
The guy in the video is a friend and a very cool guy for a 60 plus year old person. I'm not going to defend his driving habits and he knows that what he's doing is wrong, it's just he can't change it. His "instructor" was poking fun at him among other "friends" behind his back that weekend. So give the guy a break, it's only a DE and I'm sure they had enough black flags that day to stop anybody from endangering others.
The black flag issue was a matter, that I believe, could have been a recipe for disaster. The speeds in many sections at COTA are very fast, and in many instances, cars did not see those blacks flags and blew right by cars that were at a standstill. Furthermore, COTA, unlike some tracks in Texas, does not have much run off. Consequently, any mistake would surely, at a minimum, be a write off of the car. You had to be there to understand the dynamics and the concern expressed in the many preceding posts.
02-08-2013, 07:47 AM
#72
Rennlist Member
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It needs to be noted that no one has a "right" to drive on the track just because they've paid for a DE. Event organizers reserve the right to keep a driver off the track for part or all of an event as they deem necessary due to issues with a driver's car, driving, attitude, etc. The safety of the entire group takes priority over the desires of any individual driver, and some drivers need to be protected against themselves.
02-08-2013, 08:36 AM
#73
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
How could a driver who clearly does not meet the criteria to be solo be allowed to solo.
The failure here is not the student, we all have students who won't ever get it. It's the instructor and regional staff's responsibility to keep him and the other drivers safe.
He should have been parked.
The failure here is not the student, we all have students who won't ever get it. It's the instructor and regional staff's responsibility to keep him and the other drivers safe.
He should have been parked.
02-08-2013, 09:12 AM
#75
Drifting
He must've already totaled his Vette.