CCA

I've had 4 "challenging" students over the years at PCA events & others. Two were first-timers. One of them was just slow and had difficult time grasping the concept of a "line". After 3 days with him he improved a good bit, and while still slow, he was at least safe out there. The crew he was with included an instructor and they teased him that perhaps he should pursue other sports, like Checkers. He was a good sport and did make it back.

The other student, I hope didn't return. He just didn't want to listen. He would take his left hand off the steering wheel to brace against the door at VIR-T1. Wouldn't brake when I told him or hard enough, because he thought he didn't need to slow that much. Subsequently, he could not get the car to the apex -over & over again. By the end of the weekend he was keeping his hand on the wheel and getting better about his braking, but you could tell the next instructors is going to be going through all this to. Hopefully his eval was share with the next instructor if he returned.

For the most part, my students have been good, wanted to learn, listened and rearly scared me.

Veloce Raptor

Peter, I ride, also in purpose built race cars, because IMO there is no better way to really get a sense of a driver, their body language, their mannerisms, and how the car responds to them, than from the passenger seat.

mhm993

I don't understand any of this. Don't understand why the dope driver posted his highlight reel. Don't know how he was permitted to participate. Don't know why anyone would defend this 'behavior".

Perhaps OT, this is the reason I don't allow my students shoot video while I'm in the right seat. Bad enough that flat out drivers post highlight reels. God forbid I get a dope with a death wish who's video goes viral.

Shivatron

Can't answer any of the rest, but the video was posted by someone else who had put his camera on the car in question (not the driver).

KaiB

I just CAN'T Wait for this...

So, when we finally work together, are you going to squeal like you did with Globe???

russo

The issue I find perplexing about this whole thread is your involvement in a matter that you have no knowledge of what so ever. You weren't at or even near this event and yet here you are expressing views without any foundation what so ever. You don't even know the characteristics of the track layout and the importance of using sound driving principles. I have pointed it out to you that this track is unlike any other track we are accustomed to driving at. Yet, here you are putting your two cents in without knowing anything what so ever regarding this particular situation. You are confronted with video documentation of the facts and you go off and spout off and blame other factors for the said behavior. I really think you missed your calling. You should have become an attorney.

KaiB

You don't know Bassam, do you?

I'd call his driving principles sound...his friendship solid and his judgement good. I'd be more than glad to go door-to-door with him at the limit anytime.

mike1111

I feel the coach should have told chief instructor and not allowed him to go on track alone, regardless of experience, track, tires and friendship. There is no room for this at any DE, the signs are on the wall.

I think of this hobby as flying, would you let this gentleman do a solo flight...

Coochas

That first turn in particular is a beautiful demonstration of why PSM is called Please Save Me. It is actually amazing to see it work like that.

As usual we could debate the pros and cons of PSM in 'learning' cars until the cows come home, but that guy would have been seriously injured without it kicking in!

I'm assuming this was an uninstructed driver which is hard to believe.

multi21

This reminds me of a student in a local car club. At his first DE he thought he was the next Michael Schumacher because he had read everything there was to know about performance driving. He would not listen to his instructor or group leader... they were "not on his level". This man was very brilliant in his professional career and had the ego to match.

Try as they might, it took until day 2 for the $hit to hit the fan. It was turn 9 at Willow Springs. If anyone knows WSIR you come off turn 8 at about 130ish depending on what type of car you have into a decreasing radius turn for 9. Typically you brake for the turn in for 9. I was instructing in a car behind the problem student when he elected to not brake for 9. The car ended up going off track and headed for a wall. All of a sudden the car begins to counter steer rally style and goes into the pits from from the dirt.

I spoke to the instructor in the car with this "student" and debriefed him on what I saw and asked what happened in the car. Apparently the student "froze" got scared when he went off and took both hands on the steering wheel. The counter steering came from the instructor in the passenger side who reached over, grabbed the wheel and brought them both into safety.

To everyone's surprise, instead of thanking the instructor for saving him and his car, the "student" blamed the instructor for pushing him to go beyond his limits. The saving grace was that the instructor is a fine instructor with a good reputation and the student had managed to cement his reputation as well within that 2 day period.

The student was black listed from this chapter.

To the credit of another chapter of this same car club, they took a chance on this "student" and allowed him to participate in autocrosses and even their once a year driving schools. The instructors that were assigned to this student were all hand picked by the Chief Instructor with feed back going directly to the CI after each session. None of the instructors wanted to work with him based on his reputation, but they did it for the club.

The student had a sense of humility after being black listed and really tried to become a better student.

Four years later, I can report that this student has done everything right, improved his driving to the point where instructors are asking to be his instructor to see for themselves with glowing feedback. Based on this student's growth both on and off track, his home chapter allowed him back in and has been a model student with humility and a continued sense of wanting to learn new techniques.

I don't know if I would have had the initial patience to allow him into my chapter after what he had done during his first DE, but someone did and credit to them because it made a world of difference. I suspect that this driver could use a little patience and "it takes a village" approach if he was willing to give it a shot and listen.

bassam

I will finally get to meet you and Claudia in March. Thanks for the kind words.

Mahler9th

I have been at this driving thing for a long time... perhaps longer than many/most folks whom have posted in this thread. Instructing too. I have seen plenty of folks driving with habits/practices/characteristics like those shown in the video.

I have seen plenty of people "not make it" in terms of DE driving and/or racing. They just couldn't manage one or more aspects. Most often I have seen an inability to consistently focus/concentrate. When folks are truly on this end of the continuum and trying hard, a pretty tough and awkward social problem can result. I have seen this many times, unfortunately. I am sure one of the posters in this thread, a former student of mine, famous video maker and future racing star has experienced this as CDI of a PCA region for a number of years. Message to him: guess what, it happens in racing too!

I cannot tell from one video what is going on with this driver. Sure it is a lot of car, and it is a new track. I am sure plenty of DE folks learning this track have struggled with its puzzle pieces and some have even exhibited driving behaviors similar to that shown in the video.

I have not read all of the comments, but the impression I have is that the driver is trying hard. I am sure plenty of folks have worked with him, and I hope for the best.

There are so many opportunities to drive with groups where instruction isn't "as encouraged" or "as available" for folks with many events worth of seat time. Many DE "educational systems" struggle with these situations. And trackday groups often struggle even more.

Empathy is important.

Mahler9th

"Piling on" is not constructive.

jbossolo

Bassam is a class act all around, and one of the best drivers (if not THE best) in our region.
His comments are a bit biased (aren't we all?) by his personal relationship with all parts involved.

What we ALL need to keep in mind is that this situation goes far beyond these pages, and can have serious consequences for the individuals involved, the region (PCA), the organizer (MVP), the venue (COTA) and the sport in general. There's already talk about one of the parts seeking legal action. Pease keep this in mind when y'all comment, and TRY not to add fuel to the fire. We all will loose big time if events at COTA are suspended because of this!

quickxotica

Pete's story above is a good example of a properly-functioning club's PROCESS for helping/dealing with difficult students. It takes a dedicated crew of instructors and event staff working together over time and all following the same playbook that has been tested over time. In the end, a stubborn, hardheaded student can eventually be taught... and the same personality that made them so tough to reach may in the end become a great asset to them (and the club) once the student becomes just as stubborn about doing everything the CORRECT way.

Why bother with all that effort to reach one driver? Well, it gives us real satisfaction to see some of the drivers in our region who started out so rough and have now become really good & consistent. Some may even become instructors one day. It's called giving back.

Admittedly judging from a distance, in this situation it appears there was a breakdown in the PROCESS. Having the coach talk to his wife may be a creative idea, but the far more fundamental steps of NOT LETTING HIM SOLO ANYMORE, and then eventually REMOVING HIM FROM THE TRACK if the behavior persisted, were obviously missed here. When the process breaks down like that, everyone is put in danger... including the club itself from a reputational-liability POV.

Process, process, process!