993inNC

I'm listening Eric. Trying to figure out what your last statement translates to in dollars. I'm in Porsche hell with no one who knows the cars. And I'm sure there are trade secrets to getting an almost 30 year old car to be reliable and consistent at flat out, time after time.

My 993 is/was bullet proof! Take it off the trailer, beat the crap out of it, load it up and go home.......time after time after time. Never lifted a tool and its got 120k on the clock. That's the way I like to track a car!

Can I do that in a '44? What type of investment will it take to do it up front, and on going? That's really what I need to understand I guess.

multi21

The answer is no. This car is not bulletproof. It's 30 years old and there is always going to be more stress placed on a car when raced vs. a DE or time trial.

Where you will save $$ is in the consumables. 15" tires vs. 17 or 18" with the 993 will be direct savings. Brake pads and rotors as well.

Finally there is piece of mind. If I tracked a 993, I would only be going 9/10ths because I can't afford the big off or worse, a crash into a wall. With a 944 you can go 100% and even 110% and know that you can leave it at the track without regrets.

Van

I'll add more here. $10-12k will get you a strong car that's currently been (or being) campaigned - as opposed to one that's been sitting for a number of years. Even then, be prepared to do stuff right off the bat like CV joints, brakes, tierod ends, wheel bearings and possibly a clutch. Also a good idea to plan on changing the rod bearings every few seasons...

In short, plan on spending another several grand replacing these wear items and fitting the car to you (harnesses to date? Seat fit you? Happy with the cage? Window net, seat-back brace and roll bar padding going to pass tech?). This might range from $2k to $5k to really get it ready.

Then go race!

I've only had my SP2 (944 Cup here in the northeast) for a little over a year, and it's been super reliable with only 2 mechanical problems in 4 races and about 12+ DEs: I cracked a front spindle after going off at Mosport (I felt something was amiss and ended the enduro early - turns out the spindle had been improperly modified to accept a larger control arm pin by the previous owner); and the water pump started leaking at a DE this fall.

Other than that, I'm glad I made the switch (from a 944 Turbo in G class). The NA 944 has been much easier (and cheaper) to maintain, it's been more reliable, it's a more competitive class and the smiles-per-$$$ better. (And it's more fun to drive.)

993inNC

And see that's my attitude. I want to not care if i wad it up. I lost a lower control arm ball joint on the 993 the last time I was at VIR. It let go coming down the front strait when I hit the brakes at 135-140!! Luckily they engineered the car so well, it was able to hold together until I got to the pits. As soon as I tried to pull into the trailer the driver's wheel went wild. That was the last time it was ever on track. I would have cried for weeks if I destroyed that car!

I would like something I can leave at the track or the side of the road if a session ends badly.

Van at that $$ it gets difficult to leave it Everyone has been telling me 6-8 for a well prep'd car ('44 Spec probably not Cup). The little I intend on being able to be at the track, I'm just not sure it warrants spending much more than that........so much to consider.

Van

There's always ChumpCar!

http://forum.chumpcar.com/index.php?...pcar-for-sale/

Maybe some other 944 guys will give you their costs, those figures are from my experience - I know some are on tighter budgets than me. I figure I'm still at 1/10 the cost of the cup car.

993inNC

How do you guys come up with these sites !?!?

A buddy of mine came up with roadracezutox.com the other night, another treasure trove of random junk.

KLR

I'll also jump in and report that 944 Spec is a ton of fun. It's an easy car to drive and, as noted above, is easy on consumables. Cost to run midpack is similar to Spec E30 or Spec Miata (SM). Because the cars are relatively insensitive to tuning and the rules took advantage of some learnings from SM's early days, the cost to run at the front is quite a bit lower than in SM. That said, which series to run might have as much to do with your personal preferences for what kind of car you campaign as it does with the mix of people running each series in your region. Stop by and check it out!

In terms of cost, I think that $6-8k is unrealistic. My experience has been that a good car ends up costing around $12k, all in. You will likely start with a cheaper one, but after you address the issues it will inevitably have, you're in for $12k. If you have that expectation, I think you'll be happy. Eric and I have certainly demonstrated that the cars are seriously reliable in the Midwest Endurance Challenge. We went 4 for 4 this year in the most competitive class (E3) competing against VERY intense SM racers with professional race shop support. Our car had zero mechanical issues over the course of 13.5 hours of endurance racing this season.

One final observation I would make: if you buy one of these cars and race it, you will never DE a street car again. I planned to keep DEing my 951 after I bought my race car. I took it to one event and was bored to tears after two sessions. My 951 is VERY well set up for track work, but the race car is far more fun to drive. And I can drive it at 10/10ths without having to worry about my safety or the economic consequences of an incident.

993inNC

So what issues might I need to look for that would put me that high? The few I've seen FS seem to have new this, new that, or at least recent. I know rod bearings are key. But if the car is current with harness, cage, etc..... what other than consumables would take a 6-8 to 12k?
My understanding from talk in person with Chuck out in CO, was that 5-6 would get a car needing full servicing, 7-8 should be a good number to find a competent car without a lot of needs. If I spend more than that, it should need nothing period.....

I don't want 10-12k in a car I may have out 2-3 times a year. As for DE, I found if the right instructors are at the track, we could have almost as much fun as racing without the drama etc that usually accompanies true racing.

SamGrant951

Great series, lots of fun / focus on getting everyone up to speed and compared to what other people spend racing its peanuts. Also very clean / competitive racing. But 6-8k is not going to happen if you want it to be reliable/up-front IMHO.

My first year racing I spent sorting out a 7k car and it was pretty much a bummer everytime I took it out. If I was to do it again I would build one as I am pretty picky...but now that its sorted its been a real blast! Do it once, do it right and they -can- be reliable...they are still 30 years old though.

Things like cages come to mind for your question. The PO of my car was 6'5", Im 5'9". The front bar was way to close to my head with where I needed the seat - had to have the cage cut out and redone, while I was in there I redid the door bars etc. 1.5k.

chrisc

I'm thinking of selling due to work pressures, pm sent

993inNC

Got nothing Chris, try again?

Sterling Doc

It appears even the "bullet proof" 993 lost a balljoint

As your seeing, the cost for a "good" car depends on your perspective. Chuck's racers in the Rocky Mountain tend to be more on the budget side of things, so a "good car" is one that has all the performance harware, nothing is broken on it, it looks good from 10 feet, and drives well. Thats a $7-8K car. In the Midwest, our region has evolved a bit more fussy, so a "good car" has a freshly rebuilt Hartman or Dirks built motor, fresh (or at least very good) paint & graphics, new balljoints, bearings/CV joints, newer shocks, full containment seat, and is alinged and corner balanced, and has had Pine Tree Motorsports go over it. That's a $10K car. Put a new set of tires and a few things to suit to your taste, and your at $12K.

How fussy are you?

I have sold a National championship winning car twice - once for $12.5K (offer I couldn't refuse 4 years ago), and again for $10K.

993inNC

Alright now, no knocking the 993! Even bullet proof has a bad day after 120,000 miles! That was the one and only thing to ever break or go wrong in 5 years of molesting that poor car. I like to think I am a smooth driver, but I still drove it 9/10ths because all my run buddies were in GT3's.....

I would love to be in that 10-12 group, I like to look good (presentation is everything), the reality is that I tracked my 993 because I had it and could, and looked great doing it (I got more compliments on the look and sound of that car!). But for a couple time a year career at best, I want to be as cheap as possible, while being safe (if that's not an oxymoron). I don't want to have to wrench on it after each session (or during) just to keep it on track. I'm still not sure what the happy spot is for me when it comes to level of build vs $$. What I don't want is someone else's head ache, project, ratty POS. The more discussions I'm a part of, the more people I talk to , the more the picture will become focused and when the right car comes along for the right money, I'll know it. I've been successful in life working off gut feelings, networking even bottom feeding. I'll find the right car for me............if not I have 3 others in the garage that need my occasional love and attention

Sterling Doc

We'll keep an eye out for you! I built a front running car for $8K, but it took a lot of wheeling and dealing, and finding the right donor and parts car to do it. Details and a full budget here: http://www.944spec.org/944SPEC/forum...-updated-21709

Van

What you really want is a $2000 per event rental. 3 times a year would be $6k. Cheaper than owning it.