MikeJim

I'm looking at a set of Nitto NT-01 online at Discount Tires, and I see that they offer a heat cycling service ($15 per tire).

Has anyone tried machine heat cycling? Is it worth the dough? Here's what the Discount Tire website says about its service:

Heat Cycling
Competition tires are built with a highly sophisticated tread compound. This compound is capable of sustaining traction throughout a much wider temperature range, but is also extremely sensitive to the first heat cycle of its use. During this cycle the tread compound stretches as it heats.

The Discount Tire heat cycling system ensures consistent results by maintaining key conditions during the heat cycle process. The system generates uniform heating and progressive temperature build up throughout the tread. The benefit of this process is a tread compound that lasts longer and provides better traction. All competition tire manufacturers recommend a heat cycling service. Have your competition tires heat cycled today and be race ready!

Heat Cycling is available for $15 per tire.

ProCoach

My experience is that heat cycling options offered by Tire Rack and Discount Tire DO, in fact, "ensure consistent results by maintaining key conditions during the heat cycle process." Much more so than 90% of the club-level, performance drivers that attempt to do this at the track.

First, it is true that all of the competition (R-compound and especially purpose built slick) tire manufacturers have a VERY specific "break in" procedure that determines not necessarily the performance level of the tire, but the DURABILITY and LENGTH of that initial, high performance level. It is a fact that proper break-in can materially improve, by multiples, the number of heat cycles and consistency of performance of a given tire.

Second, because drivers can't always execute the very specific "ramp up" of temperature or even reach the ultimate target temperature during DE or even club race practice sessions, let alone TT sessions, it's worth the money, if you have the time, to get this done by the selling vendor. In this case, Discount Tire.

For further discussion and research, I recommend Paul Haney's excellent book which deals only with the construction, function and health of competition tires in an on-track environment. It's a heavy read, but worth it.

The tire contact patch (and your management of it) is the be-all, end-all of your connection with this earth!

Important to stack the deck in your favor, as much as possible. <grin>

KaiB

Really Peter? Data, or just enough experience?

Would your comments also apply to the 3 or 4 truly competetive cycles we may get...or to the final 8 or so before real fall-off?

Astroman

Man, I was once (very rudely, in fact) told by a popular race tire dealer that it was a "waste of money." (I stopped buying tires from them after that) But I always wondered which was true. Thanks for the info-

ProCoach

Kai, data supports that following the break-in procedure with verification that the tire ultimately gets to the target temp and isn't abused enough in that process to grain (or begin to tear the rubber off) or discolor (experience too much heat in too short a period of time) MATERIALLY EXTENDS the "3 or 4 truly competitive cycles we may get" as well as, in longer stints, maintains the mechanical grip level of the tire throughout the longer stint.

What usually happens to people that don't have a tire break-in strategy is that they bolt on stickers for qualifying or the race and "burn 'em down" going for fast laps right away.

Obviously, the new "sticker" tire has a mold release agent that needs to be "scuffed off" for the main tread compound to begin it's intimate relationship with the pavement, but if the temp rises too quickly, or the tire is slid around or locked up during this time, the tire is forever going to be compromised.

What the proper cycling does is allow the mold release to be scuffed off, then the tire temps rise in a gentle, progressive and controlled way to the target temp. When the target temp is reached, a molecular transformation occurs that "cures" the tire. I've been told by several tire engineers that proper "curing" takes at least 24 hours and preferably longer than that. The "heat cycling" service provided by the vendors kills those birds with one stone. Gets rid of the mold release, "activates" the tread compound and has shipping time to cure.

I used to be the poster child for how NOT to do this... For decades, when I had no money, I ran people's take offs. Didn't buy new tires unless I won them on contingency. The old BFG program in the 1980's (Team T/A, bless Dave Sanders!) was a great thing for starving autocrossers. I'd bolt new tires on and be a "blazing glory hero driver" for very few cycles, then they'd fall off a cliff in performance. No wonder my take-offs were DONE by the the time I got them, even though they had TONS of tread. Those guys were DOING THE SAME THING AS I WAS!

When I started racing with slicks in earnest fifteen years or so ago, I discovered that tires WERE THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT line item on my racing budget, as well as the SINGLE GREATEST PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT that I could simply "bolt on." When I started forming relationships with various manufacturer's tire reps and engineers, the "black art" of tire management and engineering really started to make sense.

All of my professional training, most recently enduring three incredibly intensive days with Claude Rouelle of OptimumG, points to the tires as being the major intersection of all we do to the car (shocks, springs, bars, geometry, pressures, alignment specs) and the driver (throttle amplitude and rate, brake amplitude and rate, steering amplitude and rate and ultimately the mix of ALL three).

Kai, get the Haney book from Amazon. It's worth it.

And remember to take care of your *** (or tires), for which it (they) bears you...

KaiB

Haney "The Racing and High Performance Tire" I own and have read; it was gifted to me by my local coach.

The question revolves around commercial "heat cycling". Would you say that it is absolutely equivalent to "proper" trackside initiation in terms of tire care? If this is true, it's well worth $15 for many cases, as it is often difficult to properly run that first session, change out, let the tires sit long enough and be patient enough to do it all right.

Veloce Raptor

IMHO, for a tire like the NT01, proper cycling is of very little benefit for DE usage. I'd use that $60 for fuel at the track instead.

For more slick-like tires such as R6, Z214, and the like, it may be slightly more beneficial, but not much.

For competition use? Definitely.

mglobe

I had a set of BFG's heat-cycled by TireRack one time. When they arrived, they barely looked like they had been exposed to any heat at all. The nubs from the mold were still standing straight up from the tread. I assumed from that that the TireRack HC process did not get enough heat in the tires. Maybe I was wrong though. Peter can you comment on this? Do you have specifics of the temperatures TireRack and other vendors expose the tire treads to? Do you have data specifically to vendor heat cycling rather than to at-the-track heat cycling by a knowledgeable racer?

KaiB

"Knowledgebale racer"

That's cute!

ProCoach

Mike, Kai,

I do not have information specific to the regimen various vendors use when charging $15 tire.

I do have specific information about each tires desired operating range, which is freely distributed by the manufacturer.

I do have data from properly executed on-track break ins performed by "knowledgeable" drivers.

This is the basis of my "supported by data" remarks.

I used to use R-compound tires and gladly paid the $15/tire charge (it was that, even then), but that was before I had data... Subjectively, I felt the "heat cycled" tires to be more durable. Just my opinion.

I would call and ask them.

Kai's observations of the work saved, providing the temps are met, seems worth it to me. I would not judge the efficacy of the "heat cycle" by whether or not the nubs are still there...

Gary R.

A little info on Tire Rack's Heat Cycling -
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=66

ProCoach

Looks good. They reference temperature...

mglobe

Thanks for that Peter. I agree that if it works, it is well worth the work saved. I can't tell you how many times I've mounted new tires with the plan to HC them at the track, then didn't feel like putting forward the effort to swap wheels back and forth, and ended up just putting on the stickers and going.

ProCoach

Mike, you're going fast enough for it to make a difference, in the long run...

KaiB

Only if he keeps off the grass; BAAAAAAAAWWWAAAHHHHH!!!!