Heat Cycling by machine?
12-31-2012, 07:21 PM
#16
The Penguin King
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12-31-2012, 07:21 PM
#17
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www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
12-31-2012, 07:47 PM
#19
Former Vendor
My experience is that heat cycling options offered by Tire Rack and Discount Tire DO, in fact, "ensure consistent results by maintaining key conditions during the heat cycle process." Much more so than 90% of the club-level, performance drivers that attempt to do this at the track.
First, it is true that all of the competition (R-compound and especially purpose built slick) tire manufacturers have a VERY specific "break in" procedure that determines not necessarily the performance level of the tire, but the DURABILITY and LENGTH of that initial, high performance level. It is a fact that proper break-in can materially improve, by multiples, the number of heat cycles and consistency of performance of a given tire.
Second, because drivers can't always execute the very specific "ramp up" of temperature or even reach the ultimate target temperature during DE or even club race practice sessions, let alone TT sessions, it's worth the money, if you have the time, to get this done by the selling vendor. In this case, Discount Tire.
For further discussion and research, I recommend Paul Haney's excellent book which deals only with the construction, function and health of competition tires in an on-track environment. It's a heavy read, but worth it.
The tire contact patch (and your management of it) is the be-all, end-all of your connection with this earth!
Important to stack the deck in your favor, as much as possible. <grin>
First, it is true that all of the competition (R-compound and especially purpose built slick) tire manufacturers have a VERY specific "break in" procedure that determines not necessarily the performance level of the tire, but the DURABILITY and LENGTH of that initial, high performance level. It is a fact that proper break-in can materially improve, by multiples, the number of heat cycles and consistency of performance of a given tire.
Second, because drivers can't always execute the very specific "ramp up" of temperature or even reach the ultimate target temperature during DE or even club race practice sessions, let alone TT sessions, it's worth the money, if you have the time, to get this done by the selling vendor. In this case, Discount Tire.
For further discussion and research, I recommend Paul Haney's excellent book which deals only with the construction, function and health of competition tires in an on-track environment. It's a heavy read, but worth it.
The tire contact patch (and your management of it) is the be-all, end-all of your connection with this earth!
Important to stack the deck in your favor, as much as possible. <grin>
As participation in autocrossing, track days, driving schools and road racing continues to grow in popularity, the tire manufacturers have developed unique DOT-legal competition tires which feature very sophisticated tread compounds. However just like other high performance parts, these tires will provide more consistent performance and last longer if they are properly broken-in.
The first time a competition tire is used is the most important. During that run, its tread compound is stretched, some of the weaker bonds between the rubber molecules will be broken (which generates some of the heat). If the tires are initially run too hard or too long, some of the stronger bonds will also be broken which will reduces the tire's grip and wear qualities. Running new tires through an easy heat cycle first, and allowing them to relax allows the rubber bonds to relink in a more uniform manner than they were originally manufactured. It actually makes them more consistent in strength and more resistant to losing their strength the next time they are used. An important heat cycling step is that after being brought up to temperature, the tires require a minimum of 24 to 48 hours to relax and reform the bonds between their rubber molecules.
Looking at the heat cycling system, it positions a mounted and inflated tire between rollers which apply pressure while the tire is rolled up to speed. It is very important to note that this allows heat to be generated as a result of deflecting (stretching) the tire within its normal operating range. There is no "artificial" heat added (no oven, no forced air, etc). Then they receive the stamp showing they are Tire Rack heat cycled.
Looking at the heat cycling system, it positions a mounted and inflated tire between rollers which apply pressure while the tire is rolled up to speed. It is very important to note that this allows heat to be generated as a result of deflecting (stretching) the tire within its normal operating range. There is no "artificial" heat added (no oven, no forced air, etc). Then they receive the stamp showing they are Tire Rack heat cycled.
Measuring the tread temperatures with a tire pyrometer we confirmed that in our controlled environment we were able to achieve appropriate and more consistent temperatures across the tire's tread without causing treadwear. All of these are significant improvements over heat cycling tires on our test track. And the 24 to 48 hour waiting period efficiently occurs while the tires are in transit to you. That means the tires are ready to use when they arrive!
The cost of heat cycling is $15 per tire. Hoosier, Kumho and Yokohama all recommend that their competition tires be "heat cycled" before being run in competition.
12-31-2012, 09:16 PM
#20
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Thanks, Damon!
12-31-2012, 09:31 PM
#21
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12-31-2012, 11:28 PM
#24
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Some of the best advice I've ever gotten from pros include stressing how its impossible to consistently tune a cars handling on old tires...
01-01-2013, 08:34 AM
#25
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According to the Tire Rack website, new tires are mounted on a rim in order to undergo the heat cycling process. That means (for a set of four tires) FOUR mountings and FOUR dismountings...PLUS the time on the machine. I don't know about you, but that seems like a LOT of work for $60...and well-worth the dough. I sure wouldn't mount and unmount four tires for $60. My local Discount Tire shop charges me $20 just to mount a new tire that I've bought online (they lower the charge to $16 if they order the tire themselves). So that's $80 for mounting a set. During the heat cycling process, the tires are put ON a rim and taken OFF a rim for $60...PLUS heat cycled.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=66
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=66
01-01-2013, 12:19 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
01-01-2013, 12:46 PM
#27
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Remember, the temperature achieved in Tire Rack's or any other proper break-in procedure is NOT solely built by friction presented TO the tread face, the temperature achieved is a product of the movement of the belts internally and through the subsequent air pressure rise.
This is why accelerating and braking are the only true way to warm up a tire properly, from the inside out.
Watch the F1 guys. The only reason they go side-to-side is to knock the loose debris (pick-up) off so they're not skating on marbles when it comes time to go.
It's insane, the level of current tire technology. GM, Virginia Tech and a consortium of OEM tire manufacturers have put in a $15 MILLION+ dollar tire test laboratory across from my facility at VIR. This is a massive upgrade to CALSPAN, which has been the OEM test center of choice for more than a decade.
It was explained to me at a Vehicle Dynamics Seminar last month that tire companies have built test tires with hundreds of temperature sensors molded into the carcass to study the way the tire works. It's amazing...
This is why accelerating and braking are the only true way to warm up a tire properly, from the inside out.
Watch the F1 guys. The only reason they go side-to-side is to knock the loose debris (pick-up) off so they're not skating on marbles when it comes time to go.
It's insane, the level of current tire technology. GM, Virginia Tech and a consortium of OEM tire manufacturers have put in a $15 MILLION+ dollar tire test laboratory across from my facility at VIR. This is a massive upgrade to CALSPAN, which has been the OEM test center of choice for more than a decade.
It was explained to me at a Vehicle Dynamics Seminar last month that tire companies have built test tires with hundreds of temperature sensors molded into the carcass to study the way the tire works. It's amazing...
01-01-2013, 01:54 PM
#28
I tried to buy NT-01 from Discount Tire a couple of months ago. The local dealer would not sell them to me since the tire sizes I wanted did not have the correct load ratings dictated in their system's computer for my car.
Anyone else every come across this?
Anyone else every come across this?
01-02-2013, 12:38 AM
#29
Nordschleife Master
Thanks for the great info Peter and Damon. This makes me wonder why the manufacturers don't do the heat cycling as the last part of the tire build.
01-02-2013, 04:03 AM
#30
Scott