More Alonso Apologists
12-07-2012, 01:04 PM
#31
Interesting stats from an F1 site and a poster's analysis.
Conventional wisdom: Vettel can't pass...Fred way outperformed his car...Massa is a turtle...some data to make it more interesting. Goes to Fernando's solid performance but also his good fortune to have a substantial number of retirements in front of him and strong starts. The red highlighted figures are the most interesting ones.
Ferrari in general did well on first lap passes, RB did worse due to being closer to the front and Webber typical backwards starts.
Conventional wisdom: Vettel can't pass...Fred way outperformed his car...Massa is a turtle...some data to make it more interesting. Goes to Fernando's solid performance but also his good fortune to have a substantial number of retirements in front of him and strong starts. The red highlighted figures are the most interesting ones.
Ferrari in general did well on first lap passes, RB did worse due to being closer to the front and Webber typical backwards starts.
Top overtakers in 2012
I've taken the 10 drivers from the top 5 teams, and categorized the types of overtakes, from 'all overtakes' to 'overtakes on top cars only with equal tires'. At the end of this article, you can see the numbers per race.
The overtaking figures -courtesy of Clip The Apex- for each race (across all data sets) do not include:
Position changes on the first lap of the race
Position changes due to drivers lapping backmarkers
Positions gained in the pits
Positions gained due to drivers yielding
Positions gained when a car has a serious technical problem; e.g. puncture, accident damage, etc.
All overtakes
1. Sebastian Vettel - 74 on-track overtakes
1. Mark Webber - 74
3. Felipe Massa - 65
4. Lewis Hamilton - 55
4. Romain Grosjean - 55
All overtakes, without backmarkers
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
1. Sebastian Vettel - 51 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton - 46
2. Mark Webber - 46
4. Felipe Massa - 45
5. Jenson Button - 41
All overtakes, without backmarkers, with equal tires
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham. Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel - 29 on-track overtakes
2. Jenson Button - 26
3. Mark Webber - 24
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 23
4. Felipe Massa - 23
All overtakes, only on 5 top teams
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
1. Sebastian Vettel - 28 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton - 25
3. Jenson Button - 22
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 21
5. Felipe Massa - 16
All overtakes, only on 5 top teams, with equal tires
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes. Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel - 17 on-track overtakes
2. Kimi Räikkönen - 16
3. Jenson Button - 14
4. Lewis Hamilton - 13
5. Felipe Massa - 12
I've taken the 10 drivers from the top 5 teams, and categorized the types of overtakes, from 'all overtakes' to 'overtakes on top cars only with equal tires'. At the end of this article, you can see the numbers per race.
The overtaking figures -courtesy of Clip The Apex- for each race (across all data sets) do not include:
Position changes on the first lap of the race
Position changes due to drivers lapping backmarkers
Positions gained in the pits
Positions gained due to drivers yielding
Positions gained when a car has a serious technical problem; e.g. puncture, accident damage, etc.
All overtakes
1. Sebastian Vettel - 74 on-track overtakes
1. Mark Webber - 74
3. Felipe Massa - 65
4. Lewis Hamilton - 55
4. Romain Grosjean - 55
All overtakes, without backmarkers
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
1. Sebastian Vettel - 51 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton - 46
2. Mark Webber - 46
4. Felipe Massa - 45
5. Jenson Button - 41
All overtakes, without backmarkers, with equal tires
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham. Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel - 29 on-track overtakes
2. Jenson Button - 26
3. Mark Webber - 24
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 23
4. Felipe Massa - 23
All overtakes, only on 5 top teams
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
1. Sebastian Vettel - 28 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton - 25
3. Jenson Button - 22
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 21
5. Felipe Massa - 16
All overtakes, only on 5 top teams, with equal tires
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes. Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel - 17 on-track overtakes
2. Kimi Räikkönen - 16
3. Jenson Button - 14
4. Lewis Hamilton - 13
5. Felipe Massa - 12
Last edited by consolidated; 12-07-2012 at 01:21 PM.
12-07-2012, 02:56 PM
#32
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You mean ALO lost the title being punted by Kimi due to the Ferrari's lack of quali pace to keep ALO out of the front/mid pack
12-07-2012, 02:57 PM
#33
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12-07-2012, 06:27 PM
#34
Briatore joins Montezemolo in criticising Schumacher
Dec.6 (GMM) Former team principal Flavio Briatore has joined Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo in criticising the way Michael Schumacher ended his Formula 1 career recently in Brazil.
Despite winning five consecutive titles for Ferrari in his ultra-successful first career, Schumacher – now driving for Mercedes – openly let his friend Sebastian Vettel overtake during the Interlagos finale.
Schumacher’s fellow German Vettel was fighting for the title against Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso, who ultimately lost the battle by 3 points.
“I was expecting a slightly different final race on the part of Michael Schumacher”, Ferrari president Montezemolo admitted last weekend.
Italian Briatore, who was team boss when Schumacher won his first two titles with Benetton in the mid-90s, agrees with his fellow Italian Montezemolo.
“The way he (Schumacher) behaved in Brazil was not good. His preference was that Red Bull beats Ferrari,” said Briatore.
“The only one who helped Ferrari was Webber,” he added, referring to Vettel’s Red Bull teammate Mark Webber, who is in Briatore’s management stable.
Dec.6 (GMM) Former team principal Flavio Briatore has joined Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo in criticising the way Michael Schumacher ended his Formula 1 career recently in Brazil.
Despite winning five consecutive titles for Ferrari in his ultra-successful first career, Schumacher – now driving for Mercedes – openly let his friend Sebastian Vettel overtake during the Interlagos finale.
Schumacher’s fellow German Vettel was fighting for the title against Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso, who ultimately lost the battle by 3 points.
“I was expecting a slightly different final race on the part of Michael Schumacher”, Ferrari president Montezemolo admitted last weekend.
Italian Briatore, who was team boss when Schumacher won his first two titles with Benetton in the mid-90s, agrees with his fellow Italian Montezemolo.
“The way he (Schumacher) behaved in Brazil was not good. His preference was that Red Bull beats Ferrari,” said Briatore.
“The only one who helped Ferrari was Webber,” he added, referring to Vettel’s Red Bull teammate Mark Webber, who is in Briatore’s management stable.
The bigger story is that Briatore and Luca agreed on something.
Got to love the FU to Ferrari by Schuchopper.
"Sure you paid me a bazillion dollars to drive a bullet proof car that drove itself.....but you chose that lazy Finn over me!!"
12-07-2012, 06:54 PM
#35
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You guys are speaking as if Schumacher could have done anything about it. Comparing the Mercedes AMG F1 car to the Red Bull is like taking a knife to a gun fight -- he wasn't going to keep Vettel behind him no matter what he did.
Besides, he doesn't owe Luca or Briatore a thing. Massa is the #2 driver, to the best of my knowledge they don't have a #3 driver by the name of Schumacher, so to say that he should have blocked VEttel is laughable.
But I will say this, the fact that Briatore admitted that Webber was the only one to challenge Vettel is telling in and of itself. It proves once and for all that Webber is out for himself and should not be on the RBR team if he isn't going to help his own teammate when he himself is out of contention. Passive aggressive is the only way to characterize Webber when dealing with his much more superior teammate.
Besides, he doesn't owe Luca or Briatore a thing. Massa is the #2 driver, to the best of my knowledge they don't have a #3 driver by the name of Schumacher, so to say that he should have blocked VEttel is laughable.
But I will say this, the fact that Briatore admitted that Webber was the only one to challenge Vettel is telling in and of itself. It proves once and for all that Webber is out for himself and should not be on the RBR team if he isn't going to help his own teammate when he himself is out of contention. Passive aggressive is the only way to characterize Webber when dealing with his much more superior teammate.
12-07-2012, 11:51 PM
#36
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I agree, I mean for example Ferrari ordering Massa move over in Germany, or faking the gearbox change in US were extremely tasteful. And then Alonso saying he was "proud of his team's decision" (to screw Massa) was especially tasteful...
12-07-2012, 11:59 PM
#37
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12-08-2012, 09:29 AM
#38
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Alonso and Ferrari is the timeless story....
Each of them treat their previous spouses like crap, demand a divorce, leave believing that their new spouses are everything they dreamed of....only to find out that they both have VD.
At least Luca still gets to sleep with Santander's money for a little while longer and Alonso has the undying admiration of his fans.
Each of them treat their previous spouses like crap, demand a divorce, leave believing that their new spouses are everything they dreamed of....only to find out that they both have VD.
At least Luca still gets to sleep with Santander's money for a little while longer and Alonso has the undying admiration of his fans.
12-13-2012, 12:48 PM
#39
You guys are speaking as if Schumacher could have done anything about it. Comparing the Mercedes AMG F1 car to the Red Bull is like taking a knife to a gun fight -- he wasn't going to keep Vettel behind him no matter what he did.
Besides, he doesn't owe Luca or Briatore a thing. Massa is the #2 driver, to the best of my knowledge they don't have a #3 driver by the name of Schumacher, so to say that he should have blocked VEttel is laughable.
Besides, he doesn't owe Luca or Briatore a thing. Massa is the #2 driver, to the best of my knowledge they don't have a #3 driver by the name of Schumacher, so to say that he should have blocked VEttel is laughable.
Had Senna been in that Merc he would have made the guy earn the position.
But it was obvious to all that Schumacher's heart wasn't in it. He was too just bored playing soccer and golf.
Some up and coming young gun should have been in that second Merc. We might have witnessed some racing.
12-13-2012, 02:35 PM
#40
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12-14-2012, 11:02 AM
#41
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12-14-2012, 11:06 AM
#42
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Does anyone know when Alonso's contract with Ferrari expires? Is it 2014?
Anyone care to venture a guess if Luca will extend the contract past 2014 if Alonso fails to deliver a WDC before then?
Never mind, academic question...2013 is definitely the year Alonso and Ferrari pull a WDC out of the hat ...
Does anyone know the record for number of times finishing 2nd in the WDC ?
Anyone care to venture a guess if Luca will extend the contract past 2014 if Alonso fails to deliver a WDC before then?
Never mind, academic question...2013 is definitely the year Alonso and Ferrari pull a WDC out of the hat ...
Does anyone know the record for number of times finishing 2nd in the WDC ?
12-14-2012, 01:06 PM
#43
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SPEED had their wrap up show after 17 years of broadcasting F1 and all the talking heads were giving their defining moment during that time and most said it was Felipe Massa winning and then not winning the WDC in 2008. They showed the pass LH put on Glock and it still stuns me how he took an extra wide line going up the hill knowing that it was the last corner of the last lap!! Talk about leaving the barn door open. Glock needs to get some lessons from Petrov on how to keep someone behind them. 
12-14-2012, 01:15 PM
#44
SPEED had their wrap up show after 17 years of broadcasting F1 and all the talking heads were giving their defining moment during that time and most said it was Felipe Massa winning and then not winning the WDC in 2008. They showed the pass LH put on Glock and it still stuns me how he took an extra wide line going up the hill knowing that it was the last corner of the last lap!! Talk about leaving the barn door open. Glock needs to get some lessons from Petrov on how to keep someone behind them.
Love the Avatar...
Merry Christmas!
GG
12-14-2012, 01:26 PM
#45
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