Why?
#46
/Also, if you haven't heard, wearing a HANS device in a car with no roll over protection, i.e. roll bar or cage, can be hazardous to your health. The HANS and presumably 5 or 6 pt. harness is meant to keep you up right. If you're involved in a roll over and the roof collapses on you, that's not where you want our head and neck to be. You may actually be saver in a 3 pt belt without the HANS where your upper torso can flex down and to the sides.
The aforementioned refers to YOU being an instructor in the right seat. The older I get the more I think it's crazy getting into a high powered car with someone I've never met before and going around a track at triple digits. You can have the best safety equipment in the world, the fact of the matter is that instruction of others in the same car is "CRAZY"!!!!
The aforementioned refers to YOU being an instructor in the right seat. The older I get the more I think it's crazy getting into a high powered car with someone I've never met before and going around a track at triple digits. You can have the best safety equipment in the world, the fact of the matter is that instruction of others in the same car is "CRAZY"!!!!
#47
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The first question was directed to you as how he drove.
The second part was something for the entire board as I always thought having a HANS was safer than not, but about a year ago I learned of actually having a HANS in a car with no roll bar or cage is more dangerous. My point was to ALL the instructors out there to consider not wearing a HANS in a car without a roll bar or cage as it is safer in the even of a roll over. The thing you have to weigh is it isn't safer if you go into a wall and there is where the compromise comes in. A particular track out west called Buttonwillow comes to mind. I've seen 5 roll overs there, but there is just one wall along the pit straight, therefore based on odds, I would not wear a HANS without a roll bar at that track, but probably wear one at Auto Club Speedway as there are walls everywhere.
The part about me getting older and thinking I must be crazy to get into a high HP car with someone I never met before still stands.
#49
Administrator - "Tyson"
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I personally know people with the attitude: "I can drive 100mph on the street without all this safety gear, why do I need it on the track?".
Usually the same class of people that think "lunch time touring" is a race, brag about how they passed a Ferrari F40.
I guess I could maybe understand his comments if these were reconnaissance laps, meaning slow going just to show someone the lines, corner workers etc..... I've attendted a few DE's that do this first thing in the morning, all cars - top speed 55 etc.. - helmets not required.
Usually the same class of people that think "lunch time touring" is a race, brag about how they passed a Ferrari F40.
I guess I could maybe understand his comments if these were reconnaissance laps, meaning slow going just to show someone the lines, corner workers etc..... I've attendted a few DE's that do this first thing in the morning, all cars - top speed 55 etc.. - helmets not required.
#50
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http://www.recaro-automotive.com/us/...-hansr-xl.html
you still may get a severe neck injury from a sideway bounce. and it seems there are no real solutions to that problem other than a combination of a right seat and HANS. at least i have not heard of any.
#51
Lateral protection when a net/winged seat is not possible-
Safety Solutions Hybrid Pro
Issac Device
I have come to have the personal opinion that added-on "safety protection" will usually compromise safety in a street car. Sport bucket seats and a three point belt may/will be/can be safer depending upon both the skill of the installer (of any add-on equipment) and the nature of the crash. Modern cars provide a system that works in synergy in a wide range of possible impact scenarios.
I've seen enough f*cked up installed harnesses in street cars (and some so-called race cars) that I dread seeing one to right seat in.
A well designed sport bucket seat as is available in newer Porsche's and a three-point belt or a 100% track only car with a professionally, correctly installed safety system are my opinion of the only way to go. One or the other, no middle ground.
#52
Race Car
what do you mean by 'most right seats'? could you pls tell more?
i saw one pretty close but never tried it on. does it require to replace backrest of the seat with a special insert?
as of dedicated race car comment - it is a best way to go, but, it requires much more than just a car. for now i have to use what i got and it is plenty enough.
i saw one pretty close but never tried it on. does it require to replace backrest of the seat with a special insert?
as of dedicated race car comment - it is a best way to go, but, it requires much more than just a car. for now i have to use what i got and it is plenty enough.
you don't need anything special.
I do often wear a torso strap around my chest and the seat back, just to help my back muscles, in a 3 point restraint. (the plastic buckle would break in any real impact).
the R3 only requires you add D rings to the helmet. its a little uncomfortable but you get use to it quick, and it does limit your head rotation (leaving pit, pit line, etc).
I usually put it on before entering car. where I use to put my helmet on in the car, so its also harder to find my belts.
#53
If you do use the insert, have you ever tried it (the R3 system) in a car with the Porsche OE Sport Buckets? Because I found it impossible from a comfort standpoint and it shoved my upper body out of the "cocoon" of the seat rendering the side bolstering useless and lessened my overall safety.
The reason I ask is because I found the R3 to be yet another compromised "solution" unless used with a deeply padded, soft seat or a seat that has a portion cut out to accommodate it.
#54
Mr. Excitement
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Hopefully I won't get flamed for this, but I did not know this, so I researched it and found out it is true. Why isn't the fact that no roll over protection and wearing a hans with harness is actually less safe than a 3 point stock belt? Something to remember for sure.
#55
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I have come to have the personal opinion that added-on "safety protection" will usually compromise safety in a street car. Sport bucket seats and a three point belt may/will be/can be safer depending upon both the skill of the installer (of any add-on equipment) and the nature of the crash.
well, that is why people do build race cars with full cages, fire suppression and proper containment seats. hopefully i will get that done next season, will see.
ps. i recently saw a really well wrecked gt3 rs car after it flew up 7ft and then rolled into wall. it is a race car so it had full solid cage. with typical rollbar driver would be obliterated as whole front of the car outside of cage got, well, severely modified. so i do not think it does really matter if you got rollbar or harness bar like my BK - you got to have solid bar and enforcement of front pillars so survive such a roll. anyway, stupid topic, heck with it.
#56
Rennlist Member
actually, can anybody explain why this product costs $1k
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-SAF.HR.50
and this one costs $595?
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-ProRa
is it same stuff or not?
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-SAF.HR.50
and this one costs $595?
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-ProRa
is it same stuff or not?
#57
Race Car
actually, can anybody explain why this product costs $1k
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-SAF.HR.50
and this one costs $595?
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-ProRa
is it same stuff or not?
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-SAF.HR.50
and this one costs $595?
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-ProRa
is it same stuff or not?
#58
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Yep I would have had the same initial reaction you did but I wouldn't give it too much thought.
I doubt it had anything really to do with your safety equipment. I think he probably thought you wanted to learn how to drive flat out.
I would chalk it up to mistaken identity.
I doubt it had anything really to do with your safety equipment. I think he probably thought you wanted to learn how to drive flat out.
I would chalk it up to mistaken identity.
#59
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#60
Race Car
Do you use the supplied foam insert when you use your R3? If you don't, what happens to your spine if the car gets backed into a wall at speed?
If you do use the insert, have you ever tried it (the R3 system) in a car with the Porsche OE Sport Buckets? Because I found it impossible from a comfort standpoint and it shoved my upper body out of the "cocoon" of the seat rendering the side bolstering useless and lessened my overall safety.
The reason I ask is because I found the R3 to be yet another compromised "solution" unless used with a deeply padded, soft seat or a seat that has a portion cut out to accommodate it.
If you do use the insert, have you ever tried it (the R3 system) in a car with the Porsche OE Sport Buckets? Because I found it impossible from a comfort standpoint and it shoved my upper body out of the "cocoon" of the seat rendering the side bolstering useless and lessened my overall safety.
The reason I ask is because I found the R3 to be yet another compromised "solution" unless used with a deeply padded, soft seat or a seat that has a portion cut out to accommodate it.
I'm used to the back piece now, at first it bothered me a bit. kinda like getting used to a helmet and suit. but once I'm on track don't feel it.
personally, I think the hans is superior, but the R3 is very close. and works in all cars... and since I spend a bit of time in various right seats, it made sense.