9.5 Degrees

Hopefully I won't get flamed for this, but I did not know this, so I researched it and found out it is true. Why isn't the fact that no roll over protection and wearing a hans with harness is actually less safe than a 3 point stock belt? Something to remember for sure.

multi21

No worries, there seems to be something lost in translation in words in the written form when trying to get through a quick thought.

The first question was directed to you as how he drove.

The second part was something for the entire board as I always thought having a HANS was safer than not, but about a year ago I learned of actually having a HANS in a car with no roll bar or cage is more dangerous. My point was to ALL the instructors out there to consider not wearing a HANS in a car without a roll bar or cage as it is safer in the even of a roll over. The thing you have to weigh is it isn't safer if you go into a wall and there is where the compromise comes in. A particular track out west called Buttonwillow comes to mind. I've seen 5 roll overs there, but there is just one wall along the pit straight, therefore based on odds, I would not wear a HANS without a roll bar at that track, but probably wear one at Auto Club Speedway as there are walls everywhere.

The part about me getting older and thinking I must be crazy to get into a high HP car with someone I never met before still stands.

morsini

It seams to me that a Hanns is pretty usless unless it's held in place by the sholder belts.

hacker-pschorr

I personally know people with the attitude: "I can drive 100mph on the street without all this safety gear, why do I need it on the track?".

Usually the same class of people that think "lunch time touring" is a race, brag about how they passed a Ferrari F40.

I guess I could maybe understand his comments if these were reconnaissance laps, meaning slow going just to show someone the lines, corner workers etc..... I've attendted a few DE's that do this first thing in the morning, all cars - top speed 55 etc.. - helmets not required.

utkinpol

it is true but even more - HANS helps most in a case of a direct frontal hit. it is exactly what i tried to ask about here as you most likely will have a side or angle impact after a spin and in a case if you do not have a containment seat like recaro pro racer hans
http://www.recaro-automotive.com/us/...-hansr-xl.html
you still may get a severe neck injury from a sideway bounce. and it seems there are no real solutions to that problem other than a combination of a right seat and HANS. at least i have not heard of any.

savyboy

Lateral impact into a wall or guard rail, barrel rolls, will kill you dead from a broken neck- HANS is of little or zero protection. Protection is only 15 degrees either side of center.

Lateral protection when a net/winged seat is not possible-
Safety Solutions Hybrid Pro
Issac Device

I have come to have the personal opinion that added-on "safety protection" will usually compromise safety in a street car. Sport bucket seats and a three point belt may/will be/can be safer depending upon both the skill of the installer (of any add-on equipment) and the nature of the crash. Modern cars provide a system that works in synergy in a wide range of possible impact scenarios.

I've seen enough f*cked up installed harnesses in street cars (and some so-called race cars) that I dread seeing one to right seat in.

A well designed sport bucket seat as is available in newer Porsche's and a three-point belt or a 100% track only car with a professionally, correctly installed safety system are my opinion of the only way to go. One or the other, no middle ground.

mrbill_fl

Marc is correct, if you are in a student car a R3 (or similar) is about the only option.

you don't need anything special.

I do often wear a torso strap around my chest and the seat back, just to help my back muscles, in a 3 point restraint. (the plastic buckle would break in any real impact).

the R3 only requires you add D rings to the helmet. its a little uncomfortable but you get use to it quick, and it does limit your head rotation (leaving pit, pit line, etc).

I usually put it on before entering car. where I use to put my helmet on in the car, so its also harder to find my belts.

savyboy

Do you use the supplied foam insert when you use your R3? If you don't, what happens to your spine if the car gets backed into a wall at speed?

If you do use the insert, have you ever tried it (the R3 system) in a car with the Porsche OE Sport Buckets? Because I found it impossible from a comfort standpoint and it shoved my upper body out of the "cocoon" of the seat rendering the side bolstering useless and lessened my overall safety.

The reason I ask is because I found the R3 to be yet another compromised "solution" unless used with a deeply padded, soft seat or a seat that has a portion cut out to accommodate it.

kurt M

Can you point me to the information you found on this?

utkinpol

i came to same opinion, pretty much. i do not see an aftermerket recaro seat and a harness i use as an added safety, it is an exact opposite compared to stock seat with curtain airbags and stock 3pt belt. to get aftermarket seat work in a 997 car you got to turn off all stock weight sensors, i do not even know anymore if airbags will deploy on a street and it is plain bad.

well, that is why people do build race cars with full cages, fire suppression and proper containment seats. hopefully i will get that done next season, will see.

ps. i recently saw a really well wrecked gt3 rs car after it flew up 7ft and then rolled into wall. it is a race car so it had full solid cage. with typical rollbar driver would be obliterated as whole front of the car outside of cage got, well, severely modified. so i do not think it does really matter if you got rollbar or harness bar like my BK - you got to have solid bar and enforcement of front pillars so survive such a roll. anyway, stupid topic, heck with it.

utkinpol

actually, can anybody explain why this product costs $1k
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-SAF.HR.50

and this one costs $595?
http://www.usracegear.com/product/SS-ProRa

is it same stuff or not?

Dr.Bill

The expensive ones are carbon fiber. The 'rage' models are not. From what I can tell, the protection afforded is the same. One just weighs slightly more and isn't made of fancy stuff.

KRA993tt

Yep I would have had the same initial reaction you did but I wouldn't give it too much thought.

I doubt it had anything really to do with your safety equipment. I think he probably thought you wanted to learn how to drive flat out.

I would chalk it up to mistaken identity.

Marc Shaw

But that's how I drive. Flat out.

Marc

mrbill_fl

no I never used the foam insert. maybe if I had an aluminum seat. (I have a sparco)
I'm used to the back piece now, at first it bothered me a bit. kinda like getting used to a helmet and suit. but once I'm on track don't feel it.

personally, I think the hans is superior, but the R3 is very close. and works in all cars... and since I spend a bit of time in various right seats, it made sense.