Jim Child

It doesn't dominate GTS2. Five out of six GTS2 National Championships have been won by Porsches.

utkinpol

well, i read from this that 3.2l E36 is competitive ehough in good hands and considering price diff on a motor compared to 996 or 997 car it makes full sense, at least for me. i would hate to dump $20k into new M96 motor.

i think i should be able to build decent enough E36 car for $20k, right?

Apex Rex

If you are looking for around 300hp, an E36 M3 makes a lot of sense. There are a couple different options for camshaft kits to put the US 3.2L's right up near that 300hp number. What do you want to include in that $20k number? Does it include purchasing the car?

utkinpol

ideally, yes.

i see those 98-99 cars to differ from $5K to $13k. never was involved with such old ones, i guess it is worth to go with cheapest one as motor will have to be taken apart anyway, right?
i need to collect more info on this subject.

utkinpol

so, speaking of NASA and those GTS3 cars - what are those M3 cars internally?
also, what other groups other than NASA GTS3 do those cars fit into?

Jacques Rimokh GTS3 BMW M3 48 N/A
Sean Tillinghast GTS3 BMW M3 1 Tom Hatem Automotive
Scott Berkowitz GTS3 bmw m3 34 engle's inc., indymotorwerks
David White GTS3 BMW M3 275
Bernardo Payet GTS3 BMW M3 120 Payet Motorsport LLC.
Olivier Raoust GTS3 BMW M3 711 Race
Michael Moore GTS3 Porsche 911 45 Motorwerks Racing
Joseph Fawsitt GTS3 Porsche 944 Turbo 76 Fawsitt Racing

onefastviking

996's and Boxster S models fit well into NASA GTS3 and GTS4, in GTS3 it's easy to lighten up and then restrict the HP down closer to the TQ number and be competitive,legal, AND more reliable.

onefastviking

BTW - I will have the 2 cars in my avatar at the NASA Nationals. The silver Boxster S ( WHICH BTW IS FOR SALE ) will be in GTS3, and the black 996 Carrera will be in GTS4, both will be trying to go for class wins.
The 996 is a past GTS3 National Champ, was 2nd in GTS4 last year in a extremely competitive race.
If you can make it to Mid O for that race feel free to stop by and say Hi. There are some fast Porsche 944's in GTS1 and GTS2 that will be there, and Scotty B, and Sean T. are always there as well so you can check out their cars too.

utkinpol

reliability of 996 and boxsters engines is a sore topic. i want a race car with cheap maintenance and an engine that does not cost $20K to replace. i spoke to a lot of E36 owners, i can afford that price level just fine. I could probably afford 996 cup car level but it is now and who knows what future will look like. E36 or E46 based racer looks way, way more attractive to me right now and long term too.

plus i had such a car in my past, i still remember how to drive it quite well, so, it looks as a very attractive option. I just want to decide if it is worth to go with detuned stock S54 motor or get dirt cheap E36 and pay to get S52 rebuilt very well. cheapest E36 3.2L I can see now is in $6K-$7K area. cheapest E46 hovers somewhere in $16K area and it is quite a difference.
i need more info to collect, obviously. but, i feel like i am getting hooked and i like this feeling.

onefastviking

I would recommend talking to some of the M3 owners regarding cost. The 20k you want to spend for a E36 will not get you in a front pack car, heck it will barely get you in a properly set up race car, BMW or Porsche. All the M3 race car owners I know have spent substantially more, like 2x more, and some still didn't have competitive cars. The M3's also have a few week spots just like P-cars, missed shifts will cause valve contact and the stock trans mounts contribute to this issue, the BMW diffs overheat and are a weak link although you can solve this by throwing money at it, there is more but that will help you get started.

The 996 and Boxster S (986) models are not as unreliable as you would think with the proper issues addressed before racing one. And you don't HAVE to spend 20k for a motor when, or if, it goes. Although the 20k factory motor option does come with new alt/starter/coil packs/plugs/air oil separator/oil cooler/etc etc so it's not a bad value either.

Paul 996

Also, you have been sorely mislead on a $20K replacement engine for a Boxster, BoxsterS or 996. Unless your definition of a replacement motor for a racecar is a crate engine from the dealer??? Racers rebuild their engine or source another used engine to rebuild upon and it does not cost anywhere close to $20k.

mglobe

Even if you are buying a crate motor from a dealer, you are not going to spend $20k for a 996. More like $13k-$14k, unless you have an asshat of a dealer, in which case you call SunCoast and get a good deal from them. Voice of experience here.

edit: To be clear, I do not have an asshat dealer. All of the Houston dealerships will offer a good price on a crate motor.

SG_M3

So, it seems are you looking for a $25k e36 or a $36k e46?

Decide on the class you want to run, the buy a car that is well proven for that class. $25-35k will get you a very nice e36 m3 race car, used prices, it would cost way more than that to build. For an e46, you would be looking at 45-65k for a used car.

To give you an idea of the price range. This was a very nice E36 M3
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Track...item231d3a6860

This a common e46 m3 build, I can tell you the build cost is way more than the used asking price
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M...item20c5e028f4

onefastviking

SG has good BMW knowledge on expenses of car builds and available cars. As he stated used race car prices are higher than the 20k you suggested you might build one for. And I guess you could build one for 20k, but it wouldn't be much of a car. Realistically your budget will need to be higher for a good build, or even to buy a good used one, as shown by the above examples that SG provided.

utkinpol

well, my $20K is what i set as a sum to drop in a season, pretty much. am i ok with it taking more than one season to prep a car. it can wait.

i looked over couple of builds and saw prices at bimmerworld. will see.

i still may keep current car and strip it, it is also an option, but not sure if it will be any good.

onefastviking

What are your goals,desires for the future ?
Do you want to just continue doing DE's ? Want to club race ?
Want to race against some seriously competitive other drivers ? Want to bring home a trophy so you can go into work on Monday and brag to everyone how you won your race class even though you leave out the fact that you were the only car in your class ? Want to race pro,Grand Am,etc ? Want to just challenge your own personal best times ?

Answering those questions along with establishing what your true car build or purchase used budget will make it easier to figure out what fits best.
There are no right or wrong answers here either, it's just determining what you want.