SG_M3

I'm sure your JRZ could be modded to fit the e36/e46 chassis. But at what cost, might just as expensive as a new set.

MCS are the hot new thing, excellent service and top quality. Lex will take care of you.

Not really wanting to get into the Pcar vs BMW for GTS classes, they both have their advantages. Both cars have engine issues which aren't cheap to prepare against. For any bmw, in any gts class, the s54 is the engine to run. I recently helped setup a GTS2 E36 with an S54 in it. Normally that engine makes 315 rwhp or so, we have it making 214 rwhp, but with huge tq across a wide rpm range.

If I was going to start with a BMW(I wouldn't use a porsche, unless its a cup with a detuned engine) for GTS, I would choose an e46 m3. Drop ARP hardware and new rod bearings in the bottom end, and just drive it. You can easily fit that car in GTS 2-4.

utkinpol

thanks. i appreciate good practical advice and this is perfectly in line with what i was thinking to do.

can you recommend any reputable motor builders in MA/CT/NH area who do not charge an arm and a leg? i used to _assist_ to open up BMW motors from mid-80s cars but I am not sure if I wil be able to deal with a newer S54 and I do not have a lift in my garage.
or is this bottom end motor work easy enough for DIYer?

SG_M3

very easy, the bottom end work on an S54 can be done of jackstands. We are just talking rod bearings and arp rod bolts. Check out Bimmerworld for prices.

I wouldn't "build" the engine unless you had to. A stockish s54 with good rod bolts and bearings is pretty reliable. It will make 300-320 rwhp with a header, exhaust, and tune all day long.

This will give you an idea of the labor involved. http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607732

utkinpol

thanks, it sounds like something i can actually DIY. awesome.

tlarocque

utkinpol- FWIW, I started a basic e46 M3 race car build back in January. I have since sold the car as a GT3 RS track car came up that I couldn't pass on and I didn't need/couldn't afford to have both. Anyway, I have never raced so my goal was to build a competent track car that could be steadily modified if I wanted to develop it further and graduate from DE to racing. I spent $18k for a 2002 car with around 58k miles, no damage or accident history. I then gutted the car, had a full cage installed (a BMW motorsports quality cage that tied into suspension mounting points), and put an OEM solid roof panel in. I can't remember what all I had purchased for suspension but it was good stuff (TC Kline DA's), fire system, window nets, Halo race seat, 2nd set of wheels, tranny cooler, etc. I didn't touch the motor/ECU or exhaust. I planned to keep stock brakes and just did pads and stainless brake lines. A basic build on what would have been a fun, safe, and reliable car. I had $35k in the car without even having assembled it. The new owner will probably put another $20k into it. e46 M3 is a great car and, I think, a really good platform to go from DE to TT to racing... but its going to cost you almost twice your original budget just to get a basic car. Not sure if that helps you but I started out like you, thinking I had found a way to have a bargain race car, only to find that I could have just as easily gone out and bought a 6-GT3.

I say keep you 997 until you have a better sense of where you are going to go with your driving.

Greg Smith

Can you explain this further? I'm not sure I agree.

onefastviking

Hmmmm, which part didn't you understand the maintenance part or the upkeep part ?

Ok, see post #50 from someone else above regarding typical costs to build.

Then for the maintenance and upkeep part of it, it's pretty basic. To maintain a top National level competitive car, whether it be BMW, Porsche,or Vette for that matter, the costs are all very similar and in the time of a year to two year period the Porsche owner typically spends less because he doesn't have as much repair and maintenance cost. Each of the cars have their plus and minuses. E46 has brgs,Vanos, etc / Vette has brake calipers,rod brgs, ps, etc / 996-986 has AOS, engine starvation, ps etc. Each of these issues has resolutions of course, I know you know this, it just costs money.

Now can you build a cheaper,lesser DE/track ride ? Say E36 for $20k, Sure !
But I can do the same with a 968 or 944S2, or 911, or Boxster S.

Those are my points, your results may vary, we can agree to disagree, thats ok.

But while I have your attention, do you know anyone that might need an E46 non sunroof roof ? I have a used one that we cut out of a customers car to do a CF one. PM me if so.

Have a good evening.

onefastviking

This seems like a nice example at a very reasonable price, although probably more than what the OP is looking for.

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=53802

onefastviking

Maybe this one ?

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=52077

onefastviking

Another ????

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=56176


Anyone care to add up Max's parts list to see what just his parts cost was ?

Greg Smith

Lets say the Porsche does cost less to maintain, I just don't see the difference(which I think would be minimal) adding up over the long term for it to be cheaper than a similarly prepared BMW(I think that was your original point).

I don't know anyone that needs the roof, but I'll keep it in mind. Did it come off that ex-Turner car? Whatever happened to that?

Max's car is sold, it was a great deal. The yellow car looks like a good deal too.

utkinpol

I saw several pre-built E46 cars online from $48k to $27k. Those listed above for mid-30k are indeed a reasonable starting point. All I need now is to figure out what to do with a current one as it will take time to either sell as is or put it back to stock and then sell. Will see.
My ultimate plan would be to keep 997 for street but wife will not let me to keep 2 toys at same time, so, will see.
I definitely will go with a pre-built car, it is easier.

mglobe

Add about 15% to the cost of a pre-built race car for stuff you will want to add or change. Seat, harnesses, data system, wheels, quick release,... I can't say what it will be for you, but I can almost guarantee that there will be some things you will "invest" in with an already built car.

utkinpol

just spoke with another firend whos opinion is to forget E46, put a cage into this tub i have, add rear wing and front aero and then just buy a rebuilt spare x51 M96 motor as those from 996 cars are cheap enough (where i disagree) and should last long enough after refresh with IMS upgrade and good rods and he says they work just fine with my C2 ECU as it`s all same stuff anyway. all those options are really messing up my head.
i need to sort it out on my own and add up some numbers, thank you so much everybody who took time to advice, it is a great place here indeed. it`s always more than one way to skin a cat, i`ll need to think a bit about it all.

onefastviking

It's been my experience that the Porsche cars are less to maintain, although none are cheap I should say. The time you spend driving the car vs sorting the car and repairing the car is usually much less also, which to me is a huge factor. But that's just my experience, your results may vary, different parts of the country can vary.

Yep, the roof is Turner yellow. That car is still at the body shop actually, the owner (a lontime friend) wanted a lot done to it and the b/s has really taken their time with it. It's really been too long, but will be out on track soon. The owner also purchased another proven, well known M3 that he has been racing in the meantime, he has a few other cars as well so it hasn't been a huge priority for him.

Max had a lot of parts in the car and it was a deal for that reason, I think maybe it's history had hurt the price, didn't that car go on it's lid or get involved in some other incident ? I know at Nationals last year it had a few corners knicked, of course 95% of the field had damage after last years Nationals week. I still love Max's graphics job, he did very well with that.

The yellow car does look like a good deal although with the electronics it may be over the head of most people.