Advice on how to progress from beginner to racer
05-26-2012, 12:19 AM
#32
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I had my first race weekend in a car last weekend. I did pretty well, too. I did that with a total of 8 hours driving time in my race car before the race weekend. I never drove a race car prior to getting this race car. I did this with just a few sessions of in-car instruction.
Scott
Scott
05-26-2012, 01:16 AM
#33
I finished 3rd on Saturday and 2nd on Sunday. I led (in class) the race on Sunday for the first 10 laps. On lap 11, the final lap, I made a mistake in turn 5 and Willard got by. Basically, I let the pressure get to me. He was on my tail all race long. I had the fastest race lap in class on Sunday too.
I had a really great time and learned a lot. I think most of the racers in the class were surprised. I would have been if I were in their shoes. You don't expect a driver that got his provisional license on Saturday morning to be that competitive right out of the box. My race car is an exceptionally good car so that help a lot.
This all helps make my point that drivers should be evaluated on what they are able to do, not how many DE days they have under their belt.
Scott
05-26-2012, 02:18 AM
#34
King of Cool
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Gary,
I think the concept that "you must drive 20 days a year in each run group as you slowly move up the ladder" to be insidious. It would seem those at the higher echelon of the sport want others to take an arduous journey in order to achieve the goal.
This isn't a union for crying out loud. How fast you move up should be based on ability and demonstrated skill. Not how many DE events you have been to.
Scott
I think the concept that "you must drive 20 days a year in each run group as you slowly move up the ladder" to be insidious. It would seem those at the higher echelon of the sport want others to take an arduous journey in order to achieve the goal.
This isn't a union for crying out loud. How fast you move up should be based on ability and demonstrated skill. Not how many DE events you have been to.
Scott
Look at Kimi (if you don't know who I mean, it's your fault), he has what? 23 races in open wheels before entering F1, yet he scored points right away and blew everyone's mind.
Then there's the guy who has years of experience of "racing" in PCA club with his various different cup cars who I pass with my practically stock 993 when he's in his 997 factory cup.
My point?
The 1st guy with limited experience was a natural talent.
The 2nd had somehow managed to "hang out" with his money but obviously was in wrong place and no matter what was never going to be anything half decent.
It's all individual but of course experience doesn't hurt so more you have it...
05-26-2012, 05:03 AM
#37
1) Have talent. Or skills that are able to be developed. A decent coach can tell you
2) Have time. To study. To read thousands of posts on RL. To study data. To watch videos. To travel to races. To test A LOT. And so on
3) Have money.
I've found that those with the most talent, have no time and no money. Those with the most time have not enough talent and no money. And those with the most money, have not enough talent, and not enough time.
If you've discovered racing in your late 20's to early 30's or even 40's, its more a money game. Very few will take you on unless you buy your way in. The approach that I'm trying to take it to buy a 997 Cup, DE it for a season, then sell it and enter the GT3Cup championship as a Bronze driver (in my region).
Can't afford it though
2) Have time. To study. To read thousands of posts on RL. To study data. To watch videos. To travel to races. To test A LOT. And so on
3) Have money.
I've found that those with the most talent, have no time and no money. Those with the most time have not enough talent and no money. And those with the most money, have not enough talent, and not enough time.
If you've discovered racing in your late 20's to early 30's or even 40's, its more a money game. Very few will take you on unless you buy your way in. The approach that I'm trying to take it to buy a 997 Cup, DE it for a season, then sell it and enter the GT3Cup championship as a Bronze driver (in my region).
Can't afford it though
05-26-2012, 09:19 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
Perhaps this can be a sticky thread?
Many of you started with little to no experience and finally got their dream car and worked through the ranks of AutoX, DE's and Driving Schools to become Instructors, Advanced Drivers, and Racers.
I would like to make a thread for those that would like to ask questions on how to progress to higher levels of driving and allow those of you that have already done so to share advice and experience.
Many of you started with little to no experience and finally got their dream car and worked through the ranks of AutoX, DE's and Driving Schools to become Instructors, Advanced Drivers, and Racers.
I would like to make a thread for those that would like to ask questions on how to progress to higher levels of driving and allow those of you that have already done so to share advice and experience.
There's a million ways and organizations to get you to racing from DE's so I will leave that to others to discuss. I took the SCCA path many years ago, quit with the kids, came back at my old age and decided to go gentleman racing with PCA. My limited racing schedule with a cheap car is still kinda pricey but I'm having fun without breaking the bank. It's the peripheral stuff that really ads up, trailer, tow vehicle, storage especially for someone like me who can't use the tow as a DD.
Look forward to meeting you next weekend Cannon1000!
Last edited by chrisc; 05-26-2012 at 09:38 AM.
05-26-2012, 09:37 AM
#39
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Agree with Scott (congrats on your results!) in that a lot of folks that come from a DE background don't realize that only 20 years ago, one of the only ways to get into racing at the amateur level was to go to an SCCA drivers school. When I went, 80%+ had NEVER been on track before... Nobody had a big accident.
I remember being shocked when Fran Hughes, the mother of BMWCCA Club Racing, began using me as a reference for newbies by insisting they be running in the top two groups and have at least eight days of DE at a minimum, no matter how good they were, to take BMWCCA CR comp school. I thought it was overkill, but I'v used her guidelines to qualify my references to for over fifteen years to her. It's turned out well.
Have fun and don't take things too seriously, be s serious student of the sport (like Scott and others here) and you'll be fine.
I remember being shocked when Fran Hughes, the mother of BMWCCA Club Racing, began using me as a reference for newbies by insisting they be running in the top two groups and have at least eight days of DE at a minimum, no matter how good they were, to take BMWCCA CR comp school. I thought it was overkill, but I'v used her guidelines to qualify my references to for over fifteen years to her. It's turned out well.
Have fun and don't take things too seriously, be s serious student of the sport (like Scott and others here) and you'll be fine.
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
05-26-2012, 10:59 AM
#40
Team Owner
+1 on the BMW Club Racing School. Fantastic program that welcomes ALL marques!
05-27-2012, 03:15 AM
#42
Agree with Scott (congrats on your results!) in that a lot of folks that come from a DE background don't realize that only 20 years ago, one of the only ways to get into racing at the amateur level was to go to an SCCA drivers school. When I went, 80%+ had NEVER been on track before... Nobody had a big accident.
I remember being shocked when Fran Hughes, the mother of BMWCCA Club Racing, began using me as a reference for newbies by insisting they be running in the top two groups and have at least eight days of DE at a minimum, no matter how good they were, to take BMWCCA CR comp school. I thought it was overkill, but I'v used her guidelines to qualify my references to for over fifteen years to her. It's turned out well.
Have fun and don't take things too seriously, be s serious student of the sport (like Scott and others here) and you'll be fine.
I remember being shocked when Fran Hughes, the mother of BMWCCA Club Racing, began using me as a reference for newbies by insisting they be running in the top two groups and have at least eight days of DE at a minimum, no matter how good they were, to take BMWCCA CR comp school. I thought it was overkill, but I'v used her guidelines to qualify my references to for over fifteen years to her. It's turned out well.
Have fun and don't take things too seriously, be s serious student of the sport (like Scott and others here) and you'll be fine.
The PCA DE world has different priorities and goals that don't really match up well with those whose goal is to specifically to go racing. At least if you want to get racing sooner rather than later and you don't want to unlearn some stuff.
If your goal is to become a PCA certified instructor, you need to play the PCA DE game. I wouldn't have the patience for it and really have no desire to be a PCA DE instructor.
I wanted to race with the PRC (NASA sanctioned) in California so I pretty much skipped the PCA DE route and worked with NASA to determine what I needed to do to satisfy them. I did do one PCA DE day in my wife's 997. I can't imagine how the typical DE instructor would handle me showing up with my race car. With my limited car experience on track, I am sure I would have been put in some lower group. I would get taught the standard conservative DE line. I am sure I would have scared most of the instructors. It just wouldn't have worked out.
What I did instead was go to some track days hosted by other organizations with formal, but less restrictive, groups. I started out in a "point-by" group but quickly moved up to the open passing group. I also convinced a couple of my racer/instructor friends to attend these track days so they could spend some time with me. That time was split with me in the passenger seat of their cars and with them in the passenger seat of my car. This strategy greatly accelerated progress towards my goal of racing.
When I thought I was ready to go racing, I didn't just go racing. I solicited the opinions of racer friends that had driven with me on the track to see if they thought I was ready to go racing. When I got the green light from most of them, I went for it.
Scott
05-27-2012, 09:23 AM
#43
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What I did instead was go to some track days hosted by other organizations with formal, but less restrictive, groups. I started out in a "point-by" group but quickly moved up to the open passing group. I also convinced a couple of my racer/instructor friends to attend these track days so they could spend some time with me. That time was split with me in the passenger seat of their cars and with them in the passenger seat of my car. This strategy greatly accelerated progress towards my goal of racing.
Scott
Scott
Also helps develop advanced driving skills for those who want to approach HPDE from a different angle. Good advice.
05-28-2012, 04:32 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the advice. Really the point of the thread was to have a place for newbie's like me to get advice and read different points of view on how to progress beyond the basics. Not the same as the other sticky which is geared a bit more to those of you with experience and want to improve techniques. A good follow up thread to this one.
Even in my limited experience, I agree with all of you - there are some good drivers and some really bad ones as well which points to that individual's natural abilities and experience. I for one enjoy instructing and take learning very seriously...no matter what the task. I have no illusions of become a professional race car driver. I just discovered this wonderful sport at 39 and just want to get better at it. I also would like to help those people like me that just want to learn.
Every single one of you started this journey at some point...and sharing your experiences helps us all learn. No one is selling anything on here but some friendly advice, so play nice.
Even in my limited experience, I agree with all of you - there are some good drivers and some really bad ones as well which points to that individual's natural abilities and experience. I for one enjoy instructing and take learning very seriously...no matter what the task. I have no illusions of become a professional race car driver. I just discovered this wonderful sport at 39 and just want to get better at it. I also would like to help those people like me that just want to learn.
Every single one of you started this journey at some point...and sharing your experiences helps us all learn. No one is selling anything on here but some friendly advice, so play nice.
05-28-2012, 04:33 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter