Advice on how to progress from beginner to racer
05-25-2012, 09:59 PM
#16
I had my first race weekend in a car last weekend. I did pretty well, too. I did that with a total of 8 hours driving time in my race car before the race weekend. I never drove a race car prior to getting this race car. I did this with just a few sessions of in-car instruction.
How soon you can progress from a beginner to a racer depends a lot on the individual driver and their life experiences. The innate talent of the driver plays a big part in it. So does the intelligence, physical ability, desire, and work ethic. Finances play a major role too.
I autocrossed at a high level for many years. I raced motorcycles at a high level for many years too. I have a lot of racing experience...just not in a car. I am highly motivated and a serious student of the sport. So, I moved up the ladder fairly quickly. Others that do not have similar experiences are likely to take a different and probably much longer path.
If you really want to race and bypass this "years of taking DE" stuff, take a racing school that will provide you with a provisional race license if you pass. Then go racing.
Scott
How soon you can progress from a beginner to a racer depends a lot on the individual driver and their life experiences. The innate talent of the driver plays a big part in it. So does the intelligence, physical ability, desire, and work ethic. Finances play a major role too.
I autocrossed at a high level for many years. I raced motorcycles at a high level for many years too. I have a lot of racing experience...just not in a car. I am highly motivated and a serious student of the sport. So, I moved up the ladder fairly quickly. Others that do not have similar experiences are likely to take a different and probably much longer path.
If you really want to race and bypass this "years of taking DE" stuff, take a racing school that will provide you with a provisional race license if you pass. Then go racing.
Scott
05-25-2012, 10:08 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
05-25-2012, 10:42 PM
#18
I think the concept that "you must drive 20 days a year in each run group as you slowly move up the ladder" to be insidious. It would seem those at the higher echelon of the sport want others to take an arduous journey in order to achieve the goal.
This isn't a union for crying out loud. How fast you move up should be based on ability and demonstrated skill. Not how many DE events you have been to.
Scott
05-25-2012, 10:50 PM
#20
Team Owner
I modulate with the requirement of my class Dave, but Mr. Chicken is still on my menu if it doesn't rain (then Tiki has my undivided attention) but of course alcohol, old age, and lack of finances come into play. Did you and your guy ever get that car running right at the Glen?
When he began to tear the engine down at home, he discovered that 2 of the coil packs had hairline cracks in them all the way through. So we were in essence in a 2800 pound 4 cylinder slug.
Now, of course, the car runs like a screamin' demon.
05-25-2012, 10:55 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Gary,
I think the concept that "you must drive 20 days a year in each run group as you slowly move up the ladder" to be insidious. It would seem those at the higher echelon of the sport want others to take an arduous journey in order to achieve the goal.
This isn't a union for crying out loud. How fast you move up should be based on ability and demonstrated skill. Not how many DE events you have been to.
Scott
I think the concept that "you must drive 20 days a year in each run group as you slowly move up the ladder" to be insidious. It would seem those at the higher echelon of the sport want others to take an arduous journey in order to achieve the goal.
This isn't a union for crying out loud. How fast you move up should be based on ability and demonstrated skill. Not how many DE events you have been to.
Scott
05-25-2012, 10:58 PM
#23
There definitely are a lot of people that do a racing school and go racing. Some have natural talent. Some, um, help the rest of us learn to make on-track decisions quickly!
Some race sanctioning bodies and regions run their own schools, so you don't have to pay a pro school. Most of the pro schools make a big deal out of being able to deliver an SCCA regional provisional license, but in most regions you can get that for a lot closer to free. SCCA Oregon Region runs their own race school in Portland, with volunteer instructors (I used to instruct when I had a car with two seats). The vast majority end the weekend with a provisional license and novice decals for their rear bumper.
But having a race license, and being a racer, are not quite the same thing :-) Well, to some people, they want to be able to go to the office and tell their buddies that they're a racer, even though they've been lapped twice by the field, and everyone on track wants to strangle the person that approved their race license :-)
I think Scott (perhaps accidentally?) hit the nail on the head when he said "I am highly motivated and a serious student of the sport." That's really the key IMHO. Take a seriously, and be a student. Learn, learn, learn. When you're watching a race on TV, watch the lines, watch the in-car closely, watch the things they try that work, watch the things they try that don't work. Watch the drivers in the pits.
To me it's like any sport. I was watching my nephew play football a while back. Two thirds of the kids on the sidelines were chatting and goofing off and not paying any attention to what was happening on the field, until the coach called them in to play. The other third were paying rapt attention to what was happening on the field, every single play. Which kids are more likely to have a future, and make it to the elite teams etc.? Which kids is the coach going to want to play when it's crunch time?
I've raced with people that have natural talent. They're usually fast, but may or may not do well. I've raced with plenty of people with very little natural talent, but a lot of drive and desire to improve and learn, and they do better and better and better. Sometimes, all of a sudden, they 'get it' and they start being competitive, but it might take them years. Others unfortunately don't.
I guess one other critical factor to success in racing, is the ability and desire to 'suck it up' and do some things that are beyond your comfort zone. Some of these young fast kids have a comfort zone that's through the roof, so nothing makes them uncomfortable. Those of us that have a little more 'life experience' and have internalized the concept of mortality, and pain, and paying for repairs :-) have a more restrictive comfort zone. This does NOT of course mean doing things outside your CAR'S comfort zone, being abrupt or spinning or whatever. It means doing something that intellectually you KNOW your car is capable of doing (going flat in a particular corner, or not braking until that particular brake marker), but you haven't quite been able to force your conscious self to actually do. I creep up on those things, but still have a 'mental block' at some point. This is part of why I know I've never done a perfect lap, because each course has multiple corners that I KNOW I'm capable of taking faster, but I haven't yet been able to actually do. Gives me something to do the next time I'm at that track :-)
Some race sanctioning bodies and regions run their own schools, so you don't have to pay a pro school. Most of the pro schools make a big deal out of being able to deliver an SCCA regional provisional license, but in most regions you can get that for a lot closer to free. SCCA Oregon Region runs their own race school in Portland, with volunteer instructors (I used to instruct when I had a car with two seats). The vast majority end the weekend with a provisional license and novice decals for their rear bumper.
But having a race license, and being a racer, are not quite the same thing :-) Well, to some people, they want to be able to go to the office and tell their buddies that they're a racer, even though they've been lapped twice by the field, and everyone on track wants to strangle the person that approved their race license :-)
I think Scott (perhaps accidentally?) hit the nail on the head when he said "I am highly motivated and a serious student of the sport." That's really the key IMHO. Take a seriously, and be a student. Learn, learn, learn. When you're watching a race on TV, watch the lines, watch the in-car closely, watch the things they try that work, watch the things they try that don't work. Watch the drivers in the pits.
To me it's like any sport. I was watching my nephew play football a while back. Two thirds of the kids on the sidelines were chatting and goofing off and not paying any attention to what was happening on the field, until the coach called them in to play. The other third were paying rapt attention to what was happening on the field, every single play. Which kids are more likely to have a future, and make it to the elite teams etc.? Which kids is the coach going to want to play when it's crunch time?
I've raced with people that have natural talent. They're usually fast, but may or may not do well. I've raced with plenty of people with very little natural talent, but a lot of drive and desire to improve and learn, and they do better and better and better. Sometimes, all of a sudden, they 'get it' and they start being competitive, but it might take them years. Others unfortunately don't.
I guess one other critical factor to success in racing, is the ability and desire to 'suck it up' and do some things that are beyond your comfort zone. Some of these young fast kids have a comfort zone that's through the roof, so nothing makes them uncomfortable. Those of us that have a little more 'life experience' and have internalized the concept of mortality, and pain, and paying for repairs :-) have a more restrictive comfort zone. This does NOT of course mean doing things outside your CAR'S comfort zone, being abrupt or spinning or whatever. It means doing something that intellectually you KNOW your car is capable of doing (going flat in a particular corner, or not braking until that particular brake marker), but you haven't quite been able to force your conscious self to actually do. I creep up on those things, but still have a 'mental block' at some point. This is part of why I know I've never done a perfect lap, because each course has multiple corners that I KNOW I'm capable of taking faster, but I haven't yet been able to actually do. Gives me something to do the next time I'm at that track :-)
05-25-2012, 11:07 PM
#25
Team Owner
LMFAO....zing!
05-25-2012, 11:29 PM
#27
My apologies. Cannon asked me for some PM advice on advancement in another thread. I asked if it would be ok if we did publicly, and suggested that he start a new thread in the Racing and DE Forum, so others could respond, and learn from the responses.
Nothing to sell, my racing is not a profit-producing enterprise :-)
I guess I'll leave this to the experts. I only have 22 posts, not ten or twenty thousand, so I must not know what I'm talking about. And here I thought it was because I was too busy on track and living my life, rather than sitting in front of a computer on Rennlist all day :-)
Sorry Cannon, maybe we can meet up some time.
Nothing to sell, my racing is not a profit-producing enterprise :-)
I guess I'll leave this to the experts. I only have 22 posts, not ten or twenty thousand, so I must not know what I'm talking about. And here I thought it was because I was too busy on track and living my life, rather than sitting in front of a computer on Rennlist all day :-)
Sorry Cannon, maybe we can meet up some time.
05-25-2012, 11:38 PM
#29
While I won't engage you defensively in the whole concept of driving X amount of days (in a DE or otherwise) the thought of racing on the track with a newbie with a "Skip Barber Yes You Can" 3 day pay me $3K and you are a race car driver doesn't exactly appeal to me. Maybe Joe-A can do it, but Joe-B may be some idiot with $$ that makes good Coffee-Cakes and will kill a few of us while learning...
My point was that not everyone should have to do 60 DE events over the course of 3 years before they can consider racing. That may be what some people actually need. But not all.
Scott