TheOtherEric

I meant that the SETTLEMENT isn't public record. But even if it was favorable to Heath, there are still 2 injunctions barring the sale of DefNder, so Necksgen seems to have an uphill battle ahead. If the Necksgen is like the DefNder (and it seems like it is), then it'll probably be off the market pretty quickly.

I don't think that's quite true. They may lose the ability to get damages but I think they can still get an injunction.

Circuit Motorsports

You should be picking stuff based on performance when the quality of the devices performance is what saves your life.

The numbers are out there. The website that had them all compiled into a nice neat spreadsheet is gone but I know the author and will see if I can get another copy from him but it shows that all of the devices help decrease the loads. It also shows lower numbers for certain devices than others. The biggest differences were in the 30 degree, offset, impacts. HANS dropped off numerically but the others didn't do so as much (Hybrid Pro, DefNder, isaac)

A good unbiased info site is here

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Head_...#Web_Resources

Make an informed decision. Don't buy something because F1 uses it or that the hotshot at the track is using it. No situation is the same and it could be that some devices may be better for what you are doing.

winders

I am talking about buying FIA and SFI certified head and neck systems here. You can certainly pick the certified device that is most comfortable for you and not put your life at risk.

You have an obvious bias against the Hans Device. If they were as bad as you seem to suggest, they wouldn't be certified.

Scott

Matt Romanowski

Winders - pick that wedgy and unbunch your panties. The advice here is solid. While comfort is important, safety is a better measure in choosing safety equipment.

Also, read the part where Hubbard and Downing basically wrote the SFI spec. Think it's biased some? Just becuase something is certified doesn't automatically mean it's really equal.

winders

Matt,

I don't wear panties.....maybe you have some experience there, I don't.

You and Joe seem to think that the Hans Device is not safe enough. If it were not, I don't think the vast majority of drivers on the pro level would be using them.

The guys at the Club Racing level I see at the track locally mostly have the Hans Device as well. Some of them are not the sharpest tools in the shed, but many of them are pretty darn smart. Based on what you guys are saying they must all be idiots for trusting their safety to the Hans Device.

I am not saying that the Hans Device is the best product out there or that people should buy it over another product. All I am saying is that it is a fine product and you are not risking life using it. If you like some other certified product better, great. Buy it and be happy.

Scott

Matt Romanowski

No one has said the Hans is not a certified, functional device; Only that it's possibly not the best. Everyone should do their own research and decide what is the best for them based on their situation, car, setup, etc.

Remember, popular doesn't mean best or even good. It just means popular.

winders

Not in so many words, they haven't. But the implication is there. The implication is that if you wouldn't choose the Hans Device if you looked at the numbers. Well, I am sure that a lot of really intelligent people, including some Pro racers, have looked at the numbers and picked the Hans Device. They must all be stupid.

I don't care which device you choose. I just find the innuendo here disturbing.

My point wasn't that the Hans Device was popular. My point was that it wouldn't be popular if it was not functional and safe. Big difference......

Scott

Circuit Motorsports

You are looking at an incredibly small part of the motorsport racing community when you are at a track like most people frequent here.

Go to the drag strip and you'll see a LOT more Safety Solutions. Go to the offroad world, same thing, stadium trucks same thing, lower level circle track, same thing.

So many of those organizations you are talking about. FIA, GrandAm, ALMS, etc. have or until recently had HANS specifically written into the rulebook. It's pretty tough to wear anything else when that is the only thing you are allowed to wear. Outside of US it is FIA only and the only FIA device until recently was the HANS.

I'm not saying HANS is bad. Never have. Actually I'm the one who points out to the HANS haters that it actually does some of things they say it doesn't do (like offset impact protection, even if it's not as good as others according to numbers). I point out that people should buy a device after learning about them and applying that knowledge to the situation that they are in car wise.

If I were racing F1, IRL , I wouldn't have a problem with a HANS. The shortcomings of the device are mitigated by the design of the car (cockpit surround) but in other car situations I feel there are better solutions right now.

HANS is a GREAT thing. They've done great things for the sport IMO. But so did the first helmet manufacturers, and 2 point seatbelts were a great step in the right direction, but being the first on the scene doesn't mean we should stop there and not continue to look for improvements on an idea.

bonehead

(ignoring winders derailment of my thread....)
Joe, please post up your impressions of the device after you've had some time to play with it. Thanks.

huangover

Ed,

Jason here, I use a Hans, if you ever want to try it out at the track, let me know and you can borrow it. I'm not engineer or genius, but just about everyone in our club race uses the Hans. I am aware of some of the scrutiny that comes along with the Hans, includes the concern for side impact (although I will say that each car/seat/roll bar, window net, passenger net would all influence the effectiveness or lack of when using a Hans device). There is also some concern about the straps coming off the shoulder area if you don't strap in correctly. Since I race a street car, the side impact thing is an issue for me, makes me want to get a full containment seat or at least get some nets up... but the first thing I do when putting my helmet/hans on and strapping in is making sure the straps are over the Hans wings, and on the inside of the little lip that is on the newer Hans devices. Nothing is perfect out there, at a particular speed or angle of impact, there may be a solid argument that one device may work better than another. Having it is definitely better than not in your car (with roll bar, harnesses, etc...) but you won't find a black or white consensus here on which is the BEST.

bonehead

Hey Jason
Just to clarify, I'm in no way, shape, or form questioning the efficacy of the HANS system. Yes, it's far and away the most widely used H&N system out there, and not just on the pro level where some 'have' to use it due to guidelines.
But if other systems out there have distinct advantages in the way of not only safety, but comfort and ergonomics, then I'm all ears.

Thanks for the offer. What size/angle HANS do you have? My guess is I'm probably a size larger than you, if not also better fitted with a different angle.

BTW, 85% sure I can make it in June. Still need to 'massage' the wife

huangover

cool man. see ya out there!