HANS device 2005 model modification
03-19-2012, 03:34 PM
#46
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Whats incredible, knowing this safety equipment is available, then not using it......there life must not be worth $850. . These days,, there shouldn't be a car on track without a head restraint.
03-20-2012, 02:52 AM
#48
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my seat is a real FAI race seat. its very similar to this black one without all the street padding and a little more containment. my belts are 6 point and the seat sides and depth of the seat you have and my old seat are very similar. However, i would not race in that seat the side containment is much less.
as far as HANS, i ran the hutchens, but didnt at times, due to the hassle to use it at times. yes, i was in a crash without it and the last thing before impact was that exact thought! "this is too fast to be hittin a wall at 100mph". so, never again.
as far as HANS, i ran the hutchens, but didnt at times, due to the hassle to use it at times. yes, i was in a crash without it and the last thing before impact was that exact thought! "this is too fast to be hittin a wall at 100mph". so, never again.
03-20-2012, 03:02 AM
#49
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Mark,
This photo show a major problem.
[img]\.jpg[/img]
Your belts are not tight enough if they allow you move this far forward. If you can get the back of your shoulders out of the seat you shoulder harness is too loose. I think you problem is the your haress bar is to low in the car. This causes you have the shoulder harness go up and over the top your shoulders too much. Combined with the layback you have it allows too much shoulder movement forward. When this happens the HANS... even when belts hold it... is compromised. The HANS relies on a tight shoulder belt to control the upper torso and to lock the neck to that torso. Once the torso moves the effect of holding things togehter is reduced. Yes belts do stretch, but that is taken into account. Loose shoulder belts are not. The other issue is that given your lay back you will have trouble turning your head. If you sit with your neck forward then you will fine the HANS grabbing you during normal driving. If you sit stright up iwth you head not forward at all then the standard tethers will allow plenty of head turning motion.
As of the ring behind the seat. Ditch it fast. All it will do is either fail and allow you more shoulder movment when belts expand out or pinch them and compromise their strength.
This photo show a major problem.
[img]\.jpg[/img]
Your belts are not tight enough if they allow you move this far forward. If you can get the back of your shoulders out of the seat you shoulder harness is too loose. I think you problem is the your haress bar is to low in the car. This causes you have the shoulder harness go up and over the top your shoulders too much. Combined with the layback you have it allows too much shoulder movement forward. When this happens the HANS... even when belts hold it... is compromised. The HANS relies on a tight shoulder belt to control the upper torso and to lock the neck to that torso. Once the torso moves the effect of holding things togehter is reduced. Yes belts do stretch, but that is taken into account. Loose shoulder belts are not. The other issue is that given your lay back you will have trouble turning your head. If you sit with your neck forward then you will fine the HANS grabbing you during normal driving. If you sit stright up iwth you head not forward at all then the standard tethers will allow plenty of head turning motion.
As of the ring behind the seat. Ditch it fast. All it will do is either fail and allow you more shoulder movment when belts expand out or pinch them and compromise their strength.
that same crash in my set up with hans, i would be a little worried. but that is not going to be a factor , because im losing the seat.
the ring is 3" in diamter and when on or off, doesnt effect belt tension. already did a test with it on and having someone remove it . It ONLY provides a little tension to keep the bels from falling off the wings, a COMMON problem with 2 other folks that have containment seats and the 2005 HANS devices without the wings.
03-20-2012, 03:18 AM
#50
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Mark, the fixes to your problem are in this thread. Go look at the setup guides on www.hansdevice.com. You don't have the belts setup right is probably the lowest hanging fruit. You didn't bother addressing my point about that earlier but it will help you actually tighten the belts.
As for the HANS device you have, it was made before 2005. The early devices were pre SFI stickers and a number of people sent them back to get the sticker so they could run with organizations that have required an SFI sticker, not just an SFI device. I've seen a number like that and it's a red herring in the situation. The wings aren't going to change anything regarding the problems you are having.
Or you could just get a Hybrid Device and not deal with the problems you are having.
As for the HANS device you have, it was made before 2005. The early devices were pre SFI stickers and a number of people sent them back to get the sticker so they could run with organizations that have required an SFI sticker, not just an SFI device. I've seen a number like that and it's a red herring in the situation. The wings aren't going to change anything regarding the problems you are having.
Or you could just get a Hybrid Device and not deal with the problems you are having.
Ill make this work, until i upgrade to a newer one.
Do you know which model HANS you have ? The 650 could have still been a few different "angle" models.
See here, just click on each seat in the picture.
http://hansdevice.com/HANS-Pro-Serie...&category=-102
The first is Model 10-for 0-10 degree seats, 2nd one is Model 20 for for 20degree seats, 3rd is Model 30 for larger drivers and and most Formula car lay downs. From my standpoint looking at your seat pictures and knowing you are a taller/larger guy I am guessing that you may in fact need the larger Model 30, it does not appear that is the HANS that you have from my viewing the pictures you have supplied.
Getting the correct HANS model for your car/seat mounting position/seat angle, and body type will obviously greatly improve the fit.
In my honest opinion, I don't believe the seat angle in your mounting is correct, I don't believe you can get to the angle you are currently at with the Manufacturers matching unmodified seat brackets, which is technically the way the seat is approved as a safety device. So I kind of question more than just the HANS, but pictures aren't always enough to tell the whole picture. Also in the other thread of similar discussion that got shut down I believe you agreed the future held a new seat for you anyway.
You take hrs of your time to inquire on here regarding how you should do this properly from people that you have no idea who they are or what their experience level is, why not just take it to a professional shop and pay a little to ask for a professional opinion. Isn't GMG close to you ? I know you go to the track weekends where other pro shops are also racing, surely they could look at it for you.
I am sure that your wife and children would appreciate you seeking professional help regarding the safety equipment in your race car.
See here, just click on each seat in the picture.
http://hansdevice.com/HANS-Pro-Serie...&category=-102
The first is Model 10-for 0-10 degree seats, 2nd one is Model 20 for for 20degree seats, 3rd is Model 30 for larger drivers and and most Formula car lay downs. From my standpoint looking at your seat pictures and knowing you are a taller/larger guy I am guessing that you may in fact need the larger Model 30, it does not appear that is the HANS that you have from my viewing the pictures you have supplied.
Getting the correct HANS model for your car/seat mounting position/seat angle, and body type will obviously greatly improve the fit.
In my honest opinion, I don't believe the seat angle in your mounting is correct, I don't believe you can get to the angle you are currently at with the Manufacturers matching unmodified seat brackets, which is technically the way the seat is approved as a safety device. So I kind of question more than just the HANS, but pictures aren't always enough to tell the whole picture. Also in the other thread of similar discussion that got shut down I believe you agreed the future held a new seat for you anyway.
You take hrs of your time to inquire on here regarding how you should do this properly from people that you have no idea who they are or what their experience level is, why not just take it to a professional shop and pay a little to ask for a professional opinion. Isn't GMG close to you ? I know you go to the track weekends where other pro shops are also racing, surely they could look at it for you.
I am sure that your wife and children would appreciate you seeking professional help regarding the safety equipment in your race car.
thanks for the concern, really. Ill be safe in the end. its a safe car as well.
I will probably be lambasted for this, but here goes. I have a 2004 vintage 20 degree Hans that came without the wings. I was racing a standard formula mazda at the time and had problems with the belts sliding off the hans due to the lack of wings. Belt mounting location was not trivial to change in this car. This vintage of hans also lacks the grippy friction material on the portion of the hans device that runs down over your chest
I modified the device by making some "wings" from a pair of $1.50 galvanized brackets from lowes that I cut and smoothed to shape then epoxied in place. I applied $5.00 worth of rubberized deck non-slip tape from the boat supply house to the chest "runners." These two mods worked great and solve my belt slippage issues. Hubbard Downing may say the wings don't make a difference, but there is a reason they went back to the winged design.
I am guessing my $10 modification is within your budget parameters.
I modified the device by making some "wings" from a pair of $1.50 galvanized brackets from lowes that I cut and smoothed to shape then epoxied in place. I applied $5.00 worth of rubberized deck non-slip tape from the boat supply house to the chest "runners." These two mods worked great and solve my belt slippage issues. Hubbard Downing may say the wings don't make a difference, but there is a reason they went back to the winged design.
I am guessing my $10 modification is within your budget parameters.
Well, you had a problem with your setup, not the Hans Device (assuming you bought the appropriate Hans device for your application). The "solutions" you chose to fix the problems may not have done you any good in a shunt. The forces the shoulder belts would apply to the epoxied on wings in a shunt would likely break them off. The grip tape might help just buckling in...but would not likely provide sufficient friction to stay in place in a shunt.
Modifying a Hans Device on you own without any guidance from the engineers that designed the device makes you a candidate for the Darwin Awards....
Scott
Modifying a Hans Device on you own without any guidance from the engineers that designed the device makes you a candidate for the Darwin Awards....
Scott
03-20-2012, 03:33 AM
#51
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anyonw want to sell their old 2005 hans without wings . I got another sucker, ummm, buyer for you . something around $250 would work for him. he rarely races, runs a slower car and is just tring to get in spec for a few races this season. doesnt have a hans or any restraint system.
03-20-2012, 09:15 AM
#52
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S0 let me get this straight:
1. You think your old, been through a crash seat, is still good.
2. The seat your trying to set the system up with sucks.
3. You think putting some random wire ring around your harnesses is ok.
4. You still haven't changed the location of the adjusters on your harness.
5. Your seating angle is probably off for the model hans you have.
6. Your harness bar position looks wrong to everyone that has looked at the pictures you posted.
7. You argue that you have a 2005 hans, yet someone who has sold them from the beginning told you a model 650 is from around 2000.
So, pretty much nothing is correct in your system, but you blame the hans? You need professional help.
1. You think your old, been through a crash seat, is still good.
2. The seat your trying to set the system up with sucks.
3. You think putting some random wire ring around your harnesses is ok.
4. You still haven't changed the location of the adjusters on your harness.
5. Your seating angle is probably off for the model hans you have.
6. Your harness bar position looks wrong to everyone that has looked at the pictures you posted.
7. You argue that you have a 2005 hans, yet someone who has sold them from the beginning told you a model 650 is from around 2000.
So, pretty much nothing is correct in your system, but you blame the hans? You need professional help.
03-20-2012, 09:18 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
S0 let me get this straight:
1. You think your old, been through a crash seat, is still good.
2. The seat your trying to set the system up with sucks.
3. You think putting some random wire ring around your harnesses is ok.
4. You still haven't changed the location of the adjusters on your harness.
5. Your seating angle is probably off for the model hans you have.
6. Your harness bar position looks wrong to everyone that has looked at the pictures you posted.
7. You argue that you have a 2005 hans, yet someone who has sold them from the beginning told you a model 650 is from around 2000.
So, pretty much nothing is correct in your system, but you blame the hans? You need professional help.
1. You think your old, been through a crash seat, is still good.
2. The seat your trying to set the system up with sucks.
3. You think putting some random wire ring around your harnesses is ok.
4. You still haven't changed the location of the adjusters on your harness.
5. Your seating angle is probably off for the model hans you have.
6. Your harness bar position looks wrong to everyone that has looked at the pictures you posted.
7. You argue that you have a 2005 hans, yet someone who has sold them from the beginning told you a model 650 is from around 2000.
So, pretty much nothing is correct in your system, but you blame the hans? You need professional help.
But remember, Matt, it is an "FAI" [sic] seat. Whatever the FAI is.
As the line in Cool Hand Luke says, some men you just can't reach.
03-20-2012, 09:25 AM
#54
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03-20-2012, 09:35 AM
#56
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03-20-2012, 02:13 PM
#58
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S0 let me get this straight:
1. You think your old, been through a crash seat, is still good.
2. The seat your trying to set the system up with sucks.
3. You think putting some random wire ring around your harnesses is ok.
4. You still haven't changed the location of the adjusters on your harness.
5. Your seating angle is probably off for the model hans you have.
6. Your harness bar position looks wrong to everyone that has looked at the pictures you posted.
7. You argue that you have a 2005 hans, yet someone who has sold them from the beginning told you a model 650 is from around 2000.
So, pretty much nothing is correct in your system, but you blame the hans? You need professional help.
1. You think your old, been through a crash seat, is still good.
2. The seat your trying to set the system up with sucks.
3. You think putting some random wire ring around your harnesses is ok.
4. You still haven't changed the location of the adjusters on your harness.
5. Your seating angle is probably off for the model hans you have.
6. Your harness bar position looks wrong to everyone that has looked at the pictures you posted.
7. You argue that you have a 2005 hans, yet someone who has sold them from the beginning told you a model 650 is from around 2000.
So, pretty much nothing is correct in your system, but you blame the hans? You need professional help.
And don't forget that he asks for discussion on his issue but then just attempts to discredit EVERYONE else for any help they try to offer.
Every village has one, we have MK here at Rennlist.
03-20-2012, 02:55 PM
#60
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I'm not the type to pile on, but...How can a post seem to make so much sense and yet apparently be so wrong? There seems to be a pattern here.