mark kibort

I got in the car and strapped myself in like im going racing. as you will see from the pictures, my helmet is clearly midpoint high to the top of the seat back rest. the belts distance is just a tad under the spec of 3" and the angle is slightly lower from the attchement point to my shoulders, also well within the spec. The sparco seat is old but does have some decent lateral support, but it does hit mid body which i dont think is too good. the adjustment bars are at the spec and end up just at the tails of the device.

the part i dont like about the hans, is that the belt tracks are slanted and do not have keepers lke the "wings" of the new design. I did like the hutchenson much better due to its fit and feel, BUT it was a major hassle to get in and out of it.

So, based on somones suggesting "D" rings, i used an old kitchen drain keeper ring, that is 3" diameter to hold the belts together , just before they go into the seat openings. this is feeling like it will work, thought im not thrilled about the forward movement due to the lack of friction over the hans device itself.. from the pictures you will see the belt angles., the keeper ring, and the height of the seat back to my helmet mid point, which seems to be debatable that it is in spec.

Now, keep this on topic. im not tashing the HANs, im being critical of it due to the feel vs another style of head and neck restrant. sure the newer one might be better, but there is nothing wrong with a device that is dated 2005, and the racing rule makers tend to agree. again, i bought this from someone ive raced with in the past and trust him that it wasnt run over by a trailer. .

So the point of this is to query the group as to their experiences and see if there is a way to make the fit better in my use of the HANS, because either way, its going to be used. BUT, i dont like the forward movement i can make with it all on and me strapped in extra tight. thats the discussion, ok?




[COLOR="Blue"]Mark, <snip>Not to mentoin the fact that you accused the device of being poorly engineered and the mandate to use it a farce, when it is clear you don't know how to use it (and would rather just trash it than learn the proper way).

Your adjustment bars are rigid. The belts need to wrap around the device to work properly, but the rigid adjustment bar won't let them. You also need sliding tethers. I have an older HANS without the lip, and until this week, had 3" belts. If you move the belts so the adjustment bar is lower and buy some sliding tethers, you will find the HANS to be imperceptible after you've been belted in for a couple of minutes.

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M758

mark kibort

here are the pics of the seat back height
the ring to keep the belts together as to not fall to the sides of the HANS device. (serious flaw in my opinion, fixed by later designs with "wings")
and a picture of the movement forward that can happen in a frontal crash. (i dont like this aspect of the hans, created by the raising of the belts off the shouders and the lack of friction vs belts on your shoulders before HANS was required.

These are valid concerns, and you just cant blame an older , legal seat for the safety issues here .

mark kibort

Here are a few more.

Now, barring VR's conspiracy theory that the HANS is really 20 years old and its has a fake counterfit SFI sticker, and it has been run over by a "trailer", lets keep the assumptions that it is just a 2005 year HAN, i know how to bolt in belts and make sure they are attached professionally, AND, i have a little experience with another head and neck restraint system for which im comparing the system to. Again, we all know the seat is FIA, but old and has a little more recline angle that most would like or are used to.

The main point here is that there is a lot of forward movement, it requires the littlle ring around the belts at the entry point of the seat and the HANS is slanted at the belt area, so they can slide off. Illl put some velcro sewn on to the belt to use the little flimsy velcro straps that i think came with the HANs, to keep the belts in the HANS tracks.

Yes, it will be used and will be safer than without it, but im not convinced its not a bad design for those reasons listed. even if the wings help with the belts, i dont like the sliding foreard under the belts feeling, even really synched down in the seat as hard as i can pull down the straps.

E55AMG

I'm far from an expert. In fact, i'm brand new to track driving - a whopping 5 days or so. I just bought a dedicated track car with full cage, harnesses, etc.

Just wore a HANS for the 1st time ever a few weeks ago. There was no way I would be able to move forward as you are in the picture. Again, I don't know why you're able to move, and won't pretend to know. Also, my belts are not falling off to the side as yours are. Don't know if it's your seat, belts, HANS, or what.

At my event recently I was getting ready for a session and got all strapped in. After all was done I realized I forgot to put on my coach's chatter box mic. I left it on the dash right in front of me. I was so tightly strapped in I couldn't reach it. I only needed to move a hair. Had to undo my harnesses in order to reach it.

I read your other thread. Perhaps I missed it, but why are you so intent on keeping that seat and obviously older HANS? A new HANS is what, $800? You're clearly an experienced track driver and i'm sure have spent a good bit of money on your car. Why not just buy a new seat and or HANS?

If it's a financial issue then I can kind of understand why you're trying to make this work. If so, say so and maybe others hear can offer up some interim solutions until you can upgrade some gear.

mark kibort

Yes, it is all budget motivated. trying to walk the fine line of not being cheap, but also being safe. i run on used tires and havent bought a new one since 2001, where before $1000s were spent on tires. I work on the car myself and built it from the ground up, in a very short time, and have built the engines for my cars and others too. my problems with the HANS is really about the seat angle, which is still legal by the way, but might not be an optimum situation for the HANS as it was for the Hutchens i used on and off since 2001 as well . the angles distances are all correct, the belts are new, FIA, and so is the older seat .everything is professionallly bolte down with a cage design, part mine and part a Grand Am car builder in the Bay area that does great work.

ive been in full containment seats in a quite a few other cars, but not wearing the HANS, so it could strictly be an issue with the angle, but the belts falling to the sides is a function of the hans being an older model.

thanks for the post

winders

Incorrect....

Scott

J richard

Mark,

I think you should take your car to a race shop and have them set it up for you. As Chris mentioned above (a relative newcomer but spot on) when I am belted in with the Hans I can't reach my gloves on the dash without unbelting. They should be that tight. I am hoping that the ring is only to test the alignment there is a bug difference in a D ring and a peice of wire. As was said before your adjusters are too high on the Hans as well. I'm beginning to wonder if the injuries you sustained in your crash were partially due to you weren't properly belted in with the huchins, and the fact that IT was tight made you think the harness was really tight enough but it wasn't. Also I'm not familiar with ANY Hans regardless of year that uses Velcro to position the belts. Weren't there some Chinese knockoffs being sold on the Internet a while back? My tethers do not go into the device just around it...

I'm not saying this to put you down or make an argument, but if your having problems with it PLEASE take it to a shop or get a tech to set this up for you, it is NOT the device and as much crap that everyone gives you nobody wants to see you hurt. Be careful don't cut any corners your life is not worth it.

Martin S.

I wanted the 3" into 2" into 3" HANS shoulder belts and the new HANS with the ribs...sold my old HANS and got the new one...somebody will buy the old HANS...$200 to $300...then you get a new one. Get the Schroth belts set up too...you deserve it.

I never cut corners on parachutes or safety gear.

Circuit Motorsports

The shoulder belt adjusters are way too high. Should be on the lower half of the device at the highest or below it. Mine fit way better if the adjuster was just below the device.

Try taking the pads off the device as well.

Bottom line is that you aren't able to get your belts tight. It's not the device's lack of wings. Go to the HANS website and read the material that comes with a new device and set stuff up the way they recommend and then come back with issues.

If you have problems with 3 inch belts you will still have problems with a 2 inch belt. You may not see/feel the problems but the mounting issues will still be there.

Also which Hutchens device are you talking about? The one that is just a bunch of straps or the current Hybrid devices? You are mixing things up a lot in this conversation.

Your pictures don't make sense BTW. Blue harnesses in one pic and black in another......

mklaskin

I don't race as much as Mark, but I do use an older HANS (2006, no "wings"), and have used it with 3" belts. I've never had an issue with the belts slipping off the sides and aside from a HANS compatible seat, have had to make zero modifications.

I'd suggest investing in a newer seat, and get rid of that ring going around the belts. Like J Richard said, have a professional shop look at your set up.

mark kibort

really then what. the distance is correct as well as the angle, right to spec., a (as well as the distance from attchement point to shoulders)

mark kibort

the ring is just an adder that seemed to help with the belt tendancy to come off the hans legs.
dont worry about blue vs black. i used the exact same distances with the newer black belts today. the adjusters are rigth where the manual says they should be, but ill try to bring them down an 1" or so and see what that does.

the main issue with forward slack and movement is the seat being at the recline angle it is. im very tight as far as the belts straped in , but the friction cannot control the forward motion, under the tension that the body can do as compared with the belts and no HANS alone.
the hutchens i mention is the old style. remember, i said used since 2001 on and off, but its a pain??

I dont think ive cut corners, just using used gear. HANS is still rate as the best device.

the injuries i sustained were stricly due to the side loading on the seat which just was about .5 to 1" too low to keep me fully contained so it dug into my ribs . most of the impact was forward and i barely moved even at an impact to a wall at near 100mph. i was snug. i can show you how snug , with belts alone. ill query some experts at the track, but trust me. ive redone a lot of pro work at the track that just wasnt right. but again, that depends on the shop.
im not arguing here either, but the main point is that ive also talked to an experienced racer buddy that also has the same complaints of the hans and the wingless version. the velcro straps , must have been used by the nascar owner, who used it last. that was his addtion to fight this "coommon" problem i guess. overall, i dont think the belts will slide off with that ring around the back, and might not even use the velcro at all. but its a design that lacks somethings. im sure the wing would make all the diff in the world, and the angle of the seat is the main issue for the forward movement. . im going to look at some reclined seat set ups and see what their system looks like.

winders

Mark,

If the Hans Device, Seat, and belts are all installed as they should be, you would not be having any problems.

There is no way you should be able to move forward the way you show with your belts properly cinched. It would not be friction that would stop you from doing so. It is the tightness of the belts along with the angles of the belts that keep them tight against the body and prevent movement.

Scott

J richard

In the event of a crash the little wire ring is going to deform with the two to three tons of pressure resulting in even more slack than if it weren't there. Any scrut is going to have you remove it, the belts need to be as flat and uniform as possible. The real issue is that if you are having issues with something that 90% of racers use without problems something is wrong that can't be blamed on the device. I really think you need to seek professional help.

peace out...