dizzyj

Where can you go specifically to put your car into "bad" situations to practice getting out of them. Reason I ask is that while I am getting faster and faster on the track at DE's I never feel like that is an appropriate place to practice getting out of a situation.

Take, for instance, oversteer. I know in my head not to lift off the throttle, and I would love to spend some time practicing not lifting off the throttle, but the risk is spinning out. My impression is that a DE, especially a pca de, is NOT the place to spin a car. Truth is, I've been trying to practice it a little by coming out of turns a bit hotter then I should, but dont tell anyone How do you learn the limit of grip till you cross it?

So is something like this just learned by seat time? go to a parking lot in the middle of the night? Seems like a track is the perfect place tho.

Thoughts? am I crazy for wanting to learn how to do this before it becomes necessary? Do I really just want to destroy a set of tires for fun?

J richard

A car control clinic with skidpad, autocross or PCA autocross school. There's s reason they make skidpads and skidcars, the only way to know the absolute limit is to exceed it and you are right a DE is not the place to practice that...

pontifex4

My PCA region offers a day where they rent a water truck and soak down a specially coated skid pad, then teach you to oversteer (and recover!). There isn't much wear on your tires due to the low friction of the pad.

It's great fun and I'm sure there's something like it near you as J said.

dizzyj

thats what I'm talking about. I have not seen one yet but I will keep my eyes peeled. Thanks!

bobt993

Agreed skidpad and lots of it. Also mix in some autocross. BTW oversteer correction is not about maintaining lots of throttle, but think it more of gaining car balance and direction. Typical response is C,P,R. Control (correct with the wheel the cars intentions, Pause (wait for the car to settle), Recovery. You will find this easy to understand after a day on a skid pad. Most drama happens with understeer and running out of track room at corner exit. An abrupt lift adds lots of forward traction inducing snap oversteer.

2BWise

Live somewhere snowy? I've learned the most, the quickest, in winter conditions. The limit is so much lower, the speeds are consequently lower, and the car reacts much slower. Gives you lots of time to process what the car is doing. The sensations of the car breaking away also tend to be more subtle, so you really have to focus on what the car is telling you because it does so quietly. Take that knowledge to the race track and you tend to be more sensitive to what the car is telling you.

Dave 86 930 Fl

Have you ever driven at a DE event in the rain? While I would not choose to drive in the rain, over 50% of my track laps in the last 6 months have been in the wet and I've learned a bunch about car control .... Try it, you might like it .

Regards, Dave

M758

AUTOCROSS.... When I was learning I would experimen in autocross. I learned like oversteer in autocross. I once had the back end step out in autocross and rather than clamp down on it right away I just put my foot down decided to see what happened. I did a donut and it was in fact quite controllable. Being an autocross I did kill a few cones, but that was all. Oh and everyone cheered. It was a PCA autocross so in that setting getting a little sideway is ok.

Once I felt confortable sliding car at low speeds I could begin to push harder in places on the track where I had soom room to go off and not impact anything. Depending on where you run these can be few and far between, but if so I do recommend finding a track that has good run off. Not good to experiment where there is a wall 3 feet off the track edge.

DAVISRILEY

I found what helped me the most was driving in sessions that were in the rain also. I always avoided those sessions, but now, I actually look forward to them. I have become much more in tune with what the car is trying to do in the dry after spending as much time as I can in the wet. Plus, a lot of people will not go out in it, track has more room, etc.

As far as spinning at de's, it's a natural occurance. Don't go out and try, but it can and will happen, as you are trying to learn the limits of the car. Repeated spins mean you or the car are doing something wrong, but the occasional off or spin is part of the learning process. Make sure you get someone in the car to help you, all pca de's will have instructors

DM993tt

I had a friend out at NJMP where I was instructing and exceeded the limits of some cycled out hoosiers.

People have suggested utilizing rainy days to achieve low levels of grip to slide the car. A similar effect can be achieved by running mediocre quality street tires in the dry.

utkinpol

autocross is the place to learn how to brake with steering and steer with throttle. still, to go 10/10 at DEs is not a smart idea unless track allows you a lot of space to spin out safely and i do not know of such tracks in my neck of the woods. plus you always should be aware of occasional slippages on the track, puddles, mud, coolants, marbles, closer to limt of traction you get - closer it is to loose control and unless you want to win something it is hardly the reason to risk your car.

as of spins - you need to learn with your spine cord to feel when spin is inevitable and how to lock your car to spin in the direction you want and when you can still recover, before you lost all traction or exceeded steering inputs beoynd recoverable. do AX for 2-3 seasons every other weekend and you`ll learn all this pretty well.

dizzyj

autocross is a good idea. I've never actually been to one of those. Started off on the track. Personally im actually getting a lot of experience by doing chumps races. 4 hours of driving during a race just lends itself to all sorts of situations, but I'm really focused on learning quickly, safely, and on the most efficient path.

certz

I am not sure where you live but I think TireRack (South Bend, IN) offers a day when they wet their skidpad.

DM993tt

I was also going to suggest chump/lemons races. Not that you want to spin durinng a race, but you are driving a crap-can with 190 tread rating tires & getting a little loose is part of the game. Better yet, take the Lemons car out on track days...

M758

Chump races are good since the cars in general handle poorly and are on street tires. Low limits and low value cars. The bad part is your teammates probably don't want to see you experiment and go off track causing you to lose 10 laps being stuck in the gravel.