M758

Well becareful with that one. Good way to get tossed..

Bring a POS to DE and starting doing alot of dirt tracking may not bother you, but it WILL upset many. Heck if I drive my 944 spec at 90% in some DE groups I might get asked to leave even keeping it all the black stuff pointed mostly straight. Somethign about "cheap" car drifting around a turn 2-3 times a session that gets some a little nervous.

CT03911

In my opinion the best way to learn oversteer control and confidence- in the actual environment you want to be in- is to use a less grippy tire and resisit the temptation to move up to R-Comps.
As your speeds and skill come up those tires will begin to slide and your skills should improve to handle that. Once you have gotten to a point where you can induce oversteer on for example a slow speed 90 corner and control it with confidence you can advance to working on the edge more at speed throughout the track and begin to consider R-Comps.
Nitto's come to mind as a great tire to make this happen, but even more of a street tire is good too.
Dumb down the tire and participate in all the aforementioned activities and you will see your oversteer confidence improve dramatically.
Don't recall if go-karting was mentioned but it teached quick hands too.
I go every month and last night a pro Grand Am driver was out there with us. Go karts aren't for kids anymore :-)

M758

I don't that that Karts help with advanced car control. What I mean is getting that last 5% from your car. A Kart is so small and light with left foot braking, no gears and rear brake that at the limit they handle very differently from street based race car. If I try to drive a Kart like I drive my race car I am very slow. The way you enter and exit a corner and carry speed is very different.

Where Karts are good IMHO is learning racecraft as you race tightly very often. Plus if you don't have car handy to drive a Kart is good to keep fresh in the off season.

Benton

Personally, I have learned quite a bit about car control from racing 125cc karts. However, they definitely are not the same. I go into it knowing that. Reaction time and "butt sensitivity" to what the kart is doing seems to be what translates the most. For a soft, even "sport" sprung street car, you aren't going to get many similarities with a kart. But for a tightly-sprung, stiff race car, similarities do exist. If you try to countersteer a street car like a kart, you are just going to pirouette to the inside of the spin due to overly quick hands.

At CMP in Kershaw, SC, they will let you rent out the skidpad for 30-min or hour-long intervals IIRC. My dad and I rented it out for two hours a few years ago (before they added the kart track, so the logistics may be different now), threw some bald street tires on the back of the race car, and went to town. What a blast!

A skidpad can really help your confidence... the only real way to learn how a car behaves is to push it, do OK, screw up, learn from the screw up, and do better. Repeat. Therefore, unless you are very experienced, I wouldn't recommend doing this at a DE. AutoX & skidpad are the way to go.

KaiB

In my opinion the best way to learn oversteer control and confidence- in the actual environment you want to be in- is to use a less grippy tire and resisit the temptation to move up to R-Comps.

This is a great suggestion. Hot street tires are fun on the track.

DAVISRILEY

That being said, you can very succesfully bring a LeMons/Chumpcar to de's, and never have a problem. Mine has been my main track car for the last couple of years, and have never had any issue with anyone at all. As a matter of fact, I have let a bunch of the instructors drive it, and they have all come back grins. I think if you are respectful, you will be fine.

sbelles

or just put lots of heat cycles on them.

utkinpol

man, you have really no idea...

i saw most of those responses - i would say, to start with some practical stuff - if you have a 997 car - get a set of 18" rims in 8/10 inches, like carrera classics or OZs, they can be found very cheap, put on them good intermediate tires in 235/285 or 235/295 - like z1 star specs or hankook r-s3. 235/285 or similar set of 18" tires will be close or under $1K. use them to practice and I would say - it will take you at least 3 sets of those tires to get at the level of acceptable enough confidence of what you are doing. smaller tires are your friends right now, but get tires with high enough melting point.
http://www.racingtireguide.com/autoc...eet-tires.html

i really like z1 star specs - you will be able to use them later too as your rain tires, they have good dry/wet grip and handle heat relatively well plus they do bite in while cold very well too. go to AX or skidpad on them and practice your sweepers with PSM off, then go with PSM on, learn how/why/when it kicks in to actually save you and when/why it kicks in just because you are forcing car to do something it does not like/expect, until you`ll learn this difference very well - do not ever turn PSM off on the track.

all in all first safety measure for you is to learn how your car behaves when any of axles start to slip out in mid-corner. it is not necesseraly bad, you just need to learn how to control car and recover from it, when you`ll learn it you can continue at DEs safely enough as your body will know what to do when this happens and your arms will learn how to react even before your brain registers 'ok, **** just have happened'. that is what track safety really means.

jdistefa

I think a gokart is a great idea. You don't have to run the karting line or be fast to get a training benefit re. car control. The high 'spring' rate teaches you to correct by butt feel and looking ahead. Get some time in a Rotax single speed or DD2 with front & rear brakes if you want to more closely mirror the braking balance of a street car, although two footing it with a rear brake only is a good lesson in itself

J richard

Ok I'm totally prepared to get full RL body slammed for thus suggestion...

NASA has had DRIFT run groups...

I have to admit I love racing in the rain, and skidpads are all kinds of dumb fun, the idea of throwing on a set of cycled out rubber and wagging my *** around the track is right up there with watermelons with shotguns, and M80s with RC planes...

And despite the ricer ghettoracer aspect of it to do it well does take quite a bit of car control....

There. I said it. Flame on...

KaiB

Oh no man...I'm with you 100%. Leterrip!!!

ubercooper

snow ftw!

great way to stay sharp in the off-season too

KaiB

LOVE IT...really like your ending.

mglobe

LSRPCA actually offers a Performance Driving School (PDS) a few times a year that is basically aimed at beginning car control skills. There is a skid pad, and also a wet/dry exercise that are great for working on car control. The school is pretty elementary for experienced track people, but it does give you access to a good skidpad. A number of track folks go to it. Look for it on the LSR web site.

TWS is for the most part a pretty benign track, and there are places where you can safely try things like throttle steering, left foot braking, trail braking. T10, the carousel is a particularly good spot to try it. We tolerate some spins, just not pure asshatery.

J richard

^^^ yup, those are great, threshold braking, slalom, friction circle, throttle steering and reaction lanes, sort of an all day automotive obstical course, a lot of fun exploring the limits of the car but at a very safe level...