KaiB

Searching race results and lap records it's easy to find the top of the pack cars...

Many of us don't have engines (yet) developed to the top of the class; I'm curious about the others. What are the "other" cars in the class like, who's running what and how are you placing in GT3 (or 4).

I will be new to PCA CR this year, in GT3S, underpowered (@ 310bhp) but with a fully developed ride at min weight. I know at Hallett I can be at least a bit competetive with a bit of luck, but wonder how others are fairing.

SoClose

I've run a 95-100 HP/L 3.4 in GT 3 S (now R) for several years. 1975 tub/body. I've had a great time and done fairly well in class.
If you are at minimum weight, you will suffer at the starts and on the longer straights (assuming the 964 in your avatar is the vehicle in question).
Hallett, High Plains, Barber, Mid Ohio will be your friends.
Sebring, Rd Atlanta, Rd America will not be kind to you (relative to other GT3 cars).

KaiB

Next year's PCA card will see us at Hallett, HPR, HPT and MPH. I have yet to schedule NASA in, but will be at Hallett and Hastings for sure.

jakermc

If you want to be competitive you are going to have to run with NASA. I have two cars built for NASA that cross over into 3R and 4S in PCA and they really have no chance against a properly built GT car. Plus the field for GT cars is VERY thin in our region. You will probably have no more than one other car in class when visiting Hallett, HPR, and MPH. I did all 3 with PCA in 2010 and I was playing with out of class cars the whole time.

At the big events, like Road America, there will be decent fields but you will have problems there. I did find the podium at Road America in my 3R car, driving the best race I've ever run, but the cream of the crop (Paul/SoClose) had about 5 seconds/lap on me!! My 85 hp/L plus 2870 lbs is no match for what can be done with a proper GT build.

What times are you turning at Hallett?

KaiB

I suspect that we'll come in at a shade under 2700# off track, and underpowered in GT4S, you're right...thin in this area. I will not be building the engine up for two seasons. Two reasons for this: $$ and the fact that I'm back in a car after a 25 year break and promised myself to really let my skills lead the way this time...I'm not ready to wring out a 100hp/L 964.

We will de-tune (with a second chip) to the top of NASA GTS3 and really look forward to the fresh season with the new Central Region.

At Hallett in the stock car (short tranny) with PSS10s I can currently run consistent low 26s on R1s and have dipped into the 25s at times. I fully expect to see regular low 24s and high 23s early this next season with the new build and would hope to nibble at the low 23s by Octoberfast.

Thanks

NaroEscape

Hmmm...I know that engine...
I'm running that engine, right at about 2100# total weight. Now...I just have to learn how to drive...

ninjabones

I'm not running in your region, but I'm in a similar situation with a highly developed 993 (widebody, aero, suspension, etc) but with a bone stock engine (274 hp at the rear wheels) and running in GT4S... when I have the funds, I'd like to build the monster Dawe 3.8.... but for now, my car is definitely better suited for NASA GTS3. I'll be running more NASA events this season, but still enjoy running with PCA (albeit without any real chance at a class win with the likes of Yonker and Healy and their respective Dawe and Musanti engines)... I did manage to hit the podium at Summit Point, NJMP, and VIR this season (partially due to luck and reliability).

Depending on the split, there are usually out-of-class cars (J, K, GTB1, GTB2, slower cups) and other mid-pack GT4 cars to play with. However, I have been disappointed at times when GT4s falls at the bottom of the split (VIR this year), where I found myself running alone for much of the race. Despite my enjoyment of the PCA events, the "juice" pales in comparison with the 10-15+ car tight in-class fields in NASA GTS3 in the northeast and midatlantic regions.

KaiB

Thanks Glen, I've read often about your car. This is precisely as I see it for the near future.

jrgordonsenior

INHO the multiplier for 6 cyl. air cooled motors (110) and 6 cyl water cooled motors (135) is way out of whack. Had I run my 3.4 996 at Rennsport I would have been racing against Gamroth's factory 993 RSR with it's monster 3.8 and I would be 325 lbs heavier. My car is a purpose built race car and one of the fastest 996's around but that handicap is excessive and insurmountable.....

An even more glaring example would be comparing 3.6 motors in both a air cooled car and a 996. The weight difference in GT3 would be 500 lbs....

KaiB

You raise points JR, but are they that valid.

Why should the multiplier for water-cooled not be 20% more than that for air cooled?

Weight is another variable in the class(es) that one can also control. We build to wherever we can in whatever class we see fit and then go racing.

I will have a monster Gamroth 3.8 also, but it ain't happening for a while - for obvious reasons - but when I do, we should be at the top of GT3.

The only question which will then remain will be: Can I show Gamroth my taillights? That's racing and we'll see.

I value your input.

jrgordonsenior

I'm sure you will be at the top of GT3 as is any 3.8 air cooled racer. There's a guy out of Colorado you may run into running his 3.6 or 3.8 (who knows) right at the weight limit and he's fast as beating up 6 and 7-cups at Miller.

I said previously that the weight comparison 3.6 air to water cooled is 500 lbs. The air cooled 3.6 usually makes close to equal whp to the water cooled motor, so why should it get a 500lb.weight advantage. That's more like a 25% advantage....

winders

There is no way a built 911 3.6 air-cooled motor makes as much power as built 911 3.6 water cooled motor.

Scott

KaiB

This is exactly my contention.

In the classes we are discussing, basically free range anything goes stuff, why on earth should the WC engines get the same multiplier as AC engines.

Now JR may have a point but I don't know the facts. I think he is saying that the same car with a water cooled engine will weigh 500lbs more than it would weigh with an air cooled engine...

I now see that Clay's 911/GT3 "special" comes in at 2250 wet...no way there is a 500lb penalty.

claykos

At one time my car was a PCA GT2 car, but then they outlawed the watercooled GT3 motors in an aircooled tub. But I think they are legal again?

Either way - my car is fast and someone should by it :-) lol. Stock cup motor, 350 to the wheels (but very reliable in this config).

A built to the hilt 3.8 aircooled motor will put 380 to the wheels, I've heard rumors of 400 but haven't seen it personally. A built to the hilt watercooled, GT3 type engine - I'm talking full RSR spec, throttle bodies, carbon plenum, 2 ring 15:1 compression pistons, RSR heads and solid lifter cams, etc will make 460-475 at the wheels as a 3.8. There aren't many of these out there. A new 3.8 cup engine will make 400-430 at the wheels depending on spec.

jrgordonsenior

Scott I'm not talking about GT3 motors or even M97 (997) motors, just the 3.6 M96 motor which was built from 02' 04'. They were listed as 320 flywheel HP, about 282 whp. That's the motor PCA attachedd a 135X multiplier to versus 110X for the 3.6 air cooled motor. There aren't any built M96 motors except the X51 package which put out 345 flywheel HP, around 305 to the wheels.

KaiB I'm saying that the air cooled 3.6 car minimum allowed weight is 500 lbs. less then the 3.6, M96 car. My point is not that the multipliers should be equal, but 23% is overboard. I think half that would be appropriate. Please remember were not comparing air cooled to GT3 or cup motors, only to 996 cars. 300 whp from a air cooled 3.6 is easy to accomplish....