97C2s911

I've been running for 8 years in GT3 , which when it started was a 3.4 no other considerations , so if you worked on weight you had that option too .
We knew who the players were . With PCA changing to the hp/wgt ratio the 3 class has become a mess in my opinion .
When you now run against RSR's with 3.8's and that's the top of the class it appears that or a car like Musante which runs at the top of the cup cars is the new bench mark .
Whether you dyno or have a designated hp per liter to wgt , if the formula is to broad then it won't matter how you check .
That's my story and I'm sticking to it . Scott

KaiB

You know, this whole time, I failed to recognize I actually meant GT4. Ha.

Valid discussion though and very interesting. It seems more and more folks are calling for a NASA style wt/hp classification. Count me in.

Like many others, I can get to the top of GTS3, but find myself lost in GT4S...that's a shame. And yes, driver plays a large role at our level, but the GT classes are indeed money wars at their basic core.

Chris M.

But why? Why create a class that requires a 40 hour motor to not get endlessly lapped? Why not create one where a person could compete on the merit of their driving ability with a stock 3.0, 3.2, 3.6, or other long-lasting motor?

I don't see why the non-dyno classes would have to pay. Just make the cars that choose to run in GT class pay. It would cost them FAR less than what they're currently paying to maintain 110hp/L.

KaiB

But why? Why create a class that requires a 40 hour motor to not get endlessly lapped? Why not create one where a person could compete on the merit of their driving ability with a stock 3.0, 3.2, 3.6, or other long-lasting motor?

Because we can? (and I don't mean money here)

Because we're car people first, and hod-rodders and ain't ever had a performance car which we didn't diddle with? Because truth and beauty can also be found with altered gear ratios, modified suspensions, lightened cars and restructured engines.

I don't believe at all that these have to be 40hr engines, and I do believe that driving ability can play just as large a role in many cases in these classes.

edit: No, if we go to dyno, I don't think the alphabets should pay.

NaroEscape

for big races, probably not an issue. But use CMP as an example: we had 10 GT cars. From what I remember, the only portable dyno around runs about $1000/day to rent. For a 2 day event, that's $200 per GT racer. Ok, let's just say they're only there for 1 day. Still $100/racer.

Plus, when can you get the car dynoed? You were there, it seems you're only out of the car for 45 min, then your back for a practice, qualify, race, etc. god forbid you have any issues....I barely had time to change tires and bleed brakes...

NASA is a different model. They have way more cars because of all the different models/manufacturers, plus TT, bigger DE, etc. they can afford to pay the dyno fee.

I would like to see a hp/wt model too, I just don't see an easy way to manage and/or implement it.

FYI, I am fully affected by this topic. I just jumped to GT3R from GT5R, and don't have the exponential $$ to be competitive with the 'big boys and girls' out there. But I intend to go out, have fun, and try not to get run over...

KaiB

Bob, come on out to Hallett, your car would rip it up out here.

NaroEscape

That is such a haul from Charlote....
My race schedule this year so far is Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, maybe VIR, maybe Mid Ohio, and CMP....I'm toast...
I'm told I need to try Summit Point.

Chris M.

I did think about the smaller races and car counts being an issue, but NASA doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Maybe their car counts are higher. And yes, the schedule was tight but we could get it done.

My main point is that there are other groups that use this system with success so we should be able to figure out a way to make it happen.

M758

That is the intent of 944 spec. We take a stock 944 that can be had for cheap and simply strip out the interior. Change out springs, sways, t-bars and shocks for "performance versions" not all out racing types. Then put on semi-sticky tires and add cage etc. Then we race on stock motors and 95% stock parts.

Keeps costs down to build and maintain and it allow driver ability to make the difference on track. Then again our class is restrictive in terms of what can be done so it is unlike many other classes.


NASA has two classes were Porsche's can run. One is GTS where power and weight are factors. The there is Performance touring were there is more granulairity to build process as you can run a stock motor car without a dyno and only suspension mods and weight reduction. You can even pick the level of weight reduction and tire size to fit into a class.


GT in PCA is an expensive class and there is no way around that. Since PCA has seen fit to have 2 divisions (stock) and GT if you want to race with them you have those limited prep options. You can either choose to work that system or leave and run some place else. 10 years ago I started in PCA club racing, but moved on after not being happy with they way my car was classed. Interestinly a couple years later PCA changed to actually adopt my car as is own class, but by then other factors like scheduling and tracks pushed me to run full time with NASA.

M758

There are many ways to make it happen. Each way involves cost. Either the GT racers pay, All racers pay, the organization pays or dyno operator pays. Everything is nogociable, but with the decentralized PCA model of regionally operated Club Races it makes it much harder to standardize and pull on local business. PCA club race organizers are region volunteers often looking to pull off 1-2 events a year. This different from a NASA regional director looking to run 10 events in season in the same area.

Astroman

Sh*t I say we make all cars pay up for a dyno and let's get some of these alphabet cars on the dyno too!

Ritter v4.0

Hey Chris- you left out the 3.4
Oh- I see you have the "long-lasting' qualification.
Never mind.

KaiB

Baaaawahhaaaaa!!!!

jrgordonsenior

PCA doesn't need to have a dyno out at the track and incur that type of expense. NASA doesn't pay to have one brought out other than at their "Nationals" race. They just require a participant to use a Dynojet (or incur a 10% penalty for others), have the operator read and comply with their specifications, and sign the dyno form stipulating that he abided by their specs. In Cali, NASA runs at 3 tracks that have private operators onsite with Dynojets. They work a deal with the privateers for compliance checks while many racers will buy time on their own. It's a win-win for everyone involved.

With POC being located on So Cal we only have 1 track with a Dynojet onsite (Buttonwillow) so we rent the Dyno Dynamics 4500 twice per year to come out to an event for 1 day. We may lose a little on the deal depending on how many we can get dyno'd, but if the series is to be successful there has to be driver confidence that the playing field is level. PCA could easily afford to invest a little in a weight/whp series both regionally and nationally. Hell they've got 40k members, we only have 700....

KaiB

That's absolutely correct; how quickly we forget and loose the forest for the trees.

Get a dyno cert and be done with it.