winders

And that's only if you do the 8 race weekends. But what if you want to test/practice?

That's one of the main reasons why I built a PRC GTL car instead. Yes, building the car from the ground up cost more than a 996 Cup car, but the annual expenses are MUCH lower.

Plus, my passions lie with the air-cooled 911 race cars and the 993 is my favorite body style.

If I had the coin, I would sure like to have newer Cup car to go along with my current race car....

Scott

Chris M.

How so? It consumes fewer pads, rotors, axles, and tires? No race fuel? I don't even know what motor it is, but I have to assume if it's fast that it can't be cheap to rebuild.

K964

Talk to guys who own a Cup, not guys who flap their gums why they are not driving one. It's really the same discussion every single time. Try a search and you'll find in 99% of those threads that whoever is interested in buying a Cup gets negative responses from the peanut gallery. "I didn't buy a Cup because the running costs/rebuild costs/tire costs/need a dedicated crew costs/need a truck and trailer costs/blah blah blah costs.

Do you want a true, factory built race car, or do you want to convert a street car? Both have compromises. PM "Glen" here on Rennlist for the skinny on everything Cup. Contact "Dan Jacobs" on RL who has driven the Cup and the Cayman S and he'll tell you which one is still in his garage. Good luck in your decision.

Veloce Raptor

+1

Astroman

+2

mglobe

I have not idea what it costs to run a Cup. I wish I knew. But all the information I see is from gum-flappers who know no more than I, and from Cup guys, who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and talk about them being cheap to run.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it seems to me that most of the cup guys fly in a different economic circle than I do. I'm not sure if Cups really are reasonable to operate, or if their definition of reasonable is different from mine. I don't see a whole lot of Cup Cars arriving on open trailers, being pulled by a 7 year old pickup truck driven by the Cup Car's owner.

I would love to see numbers on time between rebuild, cost of rebuild, cost of tires, lifespan of tires, cost of brakes,... from someone who actually has owned and operated a Cup.

mooty

usually 964 or 993 motor, there are some intake and exhaust restrictions by rule. i dont think any head work or those.

lots of fiber glass panels. 2400 lbs or so with driver. most drivers in GTL are 200# or so. so you know the car is light.

bias ply tires. they group buys a bunch at beginning of year for better pricing.

you can build a cheap GTL car. but most guys are PRC are fastidious and you as hell dont wont to show up in an UGLY car. all the GTL cars i see in PRC are beautifully presented as garage queen quality. THAT cost money. and the details in the car are what cost you $$$. but you dont have to do it that nicely as long as you dont mind looking ugly. same as spec 911. it's a cheap class. but most of the top spec 911, with may two cars that i know of, are $100k+ spec 911's. some MUCH more than spec 911's. but much cheaper to run than cup.

cup is not as expensive to run as ppl make it to be. but it's not running a SM or spec box, spec 911 etc.

ok, i am off to get some lottery tix

mikew968

I am coming from a stock engine car (in a pwr to weight ratio class) that needs the top end gone over every 2-4 years and the the same on bottom bearings. Usually about $2-$3,000 each. Maintenance I can't do is under $5,000 per year plus gas and tires. I do the simple stuff like brakes, oil changes, wheel bearings etc. I have the engine and trans work done by others.
Thanks for the feedback...very helpful

mooty

^ cup car is more than that. but it should last 150 hours unless you zing'd it, for amateur use. i know of many who has those hours and still running strong. but when it does need rebuild, it's 15-20k on the motor. i am trying to convince myself that i dont need one, but not very convincing as you can see.

jrgordonsenior

There's major budget difference between the 6-cups and 7-cups mainly due to the sequential tranny. I ran my 6-cup for 4 years and 120 hours with it only braking twice. Once I blew the clutch/PP which cost about $1,500 to replace, the other time I snapped a lower control arm which cost about the same. The man I sold it to raced it for another 2 years before rebuilding the motor/trans with 165 hours on it. I personally know 3, 6-cups that went 200 hours before rebuilding, on of those went almost 250. As someone else mentioned, it's the tires that kill your budget but Cayman or cup you're still running slicks. Thankfully NASA and POC both offer Yokohama contingencies with NASA also ohaving a Hoosier contingency.....

Find an early 6-cup with good mechanicals and go beat the crap out of it. It will thank you repeatedly....

Krokodil

You can build a reliable Cayman race car on the Gen 1 chassis for much less than the acquisition cost of an Interseries car. Yes, you need to do some engine reliability work (mainly rods), but it can be done and is really no different than any other engine. The total build cost will probably equal a semi-tired 996 cup.

From there the cost to maintain and possible re-sale are the differences (probably easier to sell the cup). I suspect that a cup will be a bit more costly to maintain as the rotors, pads, axels, etc are just more expensive and likley do not last any longer. Tires are not much different as we burn a set of cup slicks per weekend on the Cayman. Engine rebuild costs are much cheaper on the Cayman and it appears that the engine will run 125-150 hours before a refresh. It is also nice to be able to by a new transmission for less than $4K.

IMO, the main advantage to the Cup is having a populated race class wherever you go (assuming you leave the car stock). With the Cayman it can be a struggle to find a place to fit in (at least for now).

Now, if you are a club only racer who likes to tinker you should buy/build the Cayman for a more open class (GT, GTB, etc). The cup is a spec car that can not be modified and remain in class. The Caymans are just beginning to be developed and should remain an engineering challenge for some time (this is a big part of the fun for me).

A well driven Cayman can certainly beat a poorly/modestly driven 996 cup, so pace is not that much different (we usually qualify within a couple of seconds of GTC-3 pole).

Here is a picture the Cayman at LS this past summer:




Cheers,

winders

That's exactly what I did....that's where I got my numbers....and that's why I am not driving one.

Scott

winders

Everything but race fuel is cheaper for my PRC GTL car. Pads are less than half the cost , rotors are one quarter the cost, and I need a lot less of them because the car, with driver is 2350 lbs. Axles are 1/4 the cost and tires (bias-ply slicks) are half the cost and last longer. The engine and transmission cost less to rebuild and last at least as many hours.

I am not knocking the Cup cars here. I am just realistic about the costs involved.

Scott

J richard

The bottom line is this, when you get a cup you're buying into a relatively high level SPEC series. Spec motor, spec trans, spec tire (cup slick per series) etc... Most guys that get them run them in spec trim. Sure you can run it on 888s, save some money and keep your tire costs the same as spec box but your taking away the performance of the car. Same for most everything else on the car you can substitute gt3/996 even some boxster parts fit if you're dumpster diving, but that's not keeping the car in Cup spec trim. Same goes for ANY spec series including the Cayman Interseries which is a vey high level of trim. So your really comparing apples and oranges.

I've been running the Yoko cup slicks, and have gotten them from $13-1500 a set, they last 9-10 hc and then drop off several seconds. Yea you can save some money and run them longer but they get to be a handful, or you could run a hoosier or dot r and not get everything out of the car.

During a cold morning the motor was bucking as they do driving in the pits, it tore the dog ring off the first gear (part of the mainshaft) I was able to have it welded but the cup replacement part was about the cost of a street Gt3 box that would have worked but was not cup spec.

As a diehard drysump air-cooled guy it is hard to argue the simplicity and robustness of the early cars, but zinging a built air-cooled motor (not a junkyard find) is pretty much a cup rebuild cost. Take a look at the costs of some of the nice 2l vintage builds as an example, a motor can cost you $30k. (yea I said $30k)

This spec box build is interesting as well, the money spent on toe links, springs, arms, swaybars is EXACTLY what I'm spending for 996 cup parts! Go figure.

I love the cup. The problem is that the operating costs are pretty much common knowledge and true, most other series you can delude yourself into anything you want to believe...

(Mooty you still need one! and your RS package finally showed up!)

Matt Romanowski

I always figure it takes about the same amount of money to go really fast regardless of the chassis and motor combo. I have a friend with a 73 tub that can run with GT3 Cups. He spends about the same money as if he had a cup.

Speed = Money