mark kibort

Scott, it probably wont rain, statistically speaking. BUT, if it does, you would not need to buy a new set of tires, just borrow a set of street rims. I thnk I have a set of BBS rims with tires on them that can fit a 911. 255 rubber on 17s. brake clearance might be the only issue with them. I also have a spare set of C2 rims also 17s that might work, but no tires on them.

Slicks are not a big deal in the rain. its good experience running them, albiet a lot slower. Again, Juan would not want any of us instructors or other running without rains during the class.

Mahler9th

Its silly for someone like Scott to consider a rain config... you guys are barking up the wrong tree. What someone like Mark or a Spec 911 driver does in his car in the wet has nothing to do with Scott's configuration.

Some of our GTL drivers have run in the rain and done pretty well, but this is not the norm. Specifying a rain set up has come up from time to time, but it doesn't have support I think due to cost and hassle.

I do not know a lot about the program here, but I encourage interested folks to get further details. Its value, even for a newcomer to 4-wheel racing like Scott, will depend on a number of variables. In Scott's case,my belief is that it is primarily valuable as seat time, if the weather is perfect and he has the budget and bandwidth.

As far as racing goes, there are different expectations and cultures and I am sure that Juan and Dean take this into account. For example, in the Porsche Racing Club, we have a document called Guidelines for Racing in our rules.

I am sure the leaders of the group take that into account... but I would make sure to be familiar with this if I were a prospective student intent upon racing with the PRC.

The way we race is different from the way NASA race in other groups and the way Mark races in SCCA for example. Not better or worse or more aggressive or less aggressive... just governed by a different set of guidelines.

As far as rentals go, I would think you could contact any number of Spec Miata rental shops that Juan or Dean may recommend. You may also be able to rent a Spec 911 from Gamroth, et al at Rothsport or from teh folks at Jerry Woods Enterprises.

I hope that the weather is perfect when this event takes place, and that all involved have an informative and fun and safe event.

fatbillybob

I always followed the mantra of being polite on track and get to know your fellow racers. Then you can push each other around on track without postrace fights in impound. I only race SCCA. Can you give a couple examples of how race culture/guidelines are different? The only one I heard was the PCA chop that does not exist in SCCA. If you do that you get to buy yourself a new door.

winders

Have you even read the rules????

You can pass on the start once the green flag drops and you certainly can run two wide in the first turn.

Mark, it was so nice here when you weren't posting. The main reason I will not sign up for Juan's clinic is that you are involved. It's bad enough that I have to be exposed to you here. I will not pay to have to deal with you in person.

Scott

justaguy

Oh no here we go.

In defence of the clinc. I took I enjoyed it. I learned a couple of things. Dean and Juan are great.

Mark Kibort was my instructor and I enjoyed working with him.

Lets not allow personal differecence detract from what is a very educational and positive learning experience for anyone planinng on making the step from DE to door to door racing.

mooty

i concur on this part.
it's a small world and some ppl have poor reputation on track. they dont SEE things and ....... s**t happens...... and when you stir up a dusty storm they still have no idea what happened.....

and dean is really cool and fast.
and actually can xfer his skills to his students. not many instructors can do that!

jrgordonsenior

All this rain at T-hill talk has me depressed. I'm there next weekend w/POC (WTF are you talking about Mark K?) and the forecast is questionable. I can borrow a set of rains, but I don't even have a windshield wiper motor much less a wiper blade. Oh well, Rain X and a prayer I guess....

mark kibort

THX JR!

Hey, you dont need windshield wipers with RainX. the stuff is amaing. I used it at Thunderhill in a rain race and at that Laguna GTGP race. vision was never an issue, but grip was running slicks! (but it was still a blast, but I like the rain )

Ill see if i can dig up my thunderhill video in the rain to see the windshield effects.

mark kibort

Hey guys,

Sorry to get carried away.

As far as the clinic is concerned, no one is going to be driving without rain tires in the wet, student and instructor alike. Juan is adamant about this. He's right too. if it was raining and students were on dipsarate tires, slicks , rains, etc. it could make the drills a little too risky, and why take the risk.

The school is very much about understanding how to manage risk and safety as it is about competition -- to finish first, first you have to finish

Look forward to a great event again this year!

Mark

dp35

To anyone with anxiety issues about driving/racing in the rain - you don't know what you're missing! Also, for all you know, you might be a rain meister.

First time I raced in the rain I was scared sh*tless, because practice & qual were full dry conditions, and I was qualified near the front. Ended up having a blast and winning the race! I was as surpised as anyone.

mark kibort

It can be the great equalizer!

IcemanG17

I used to be VERY worried about racing in the rain.....then I won a couple races in it!!!!!!!!!!!! Once was on Seans "snow" tires that worked great....once was on shaved RA1's (NOT FUN) I found it quite thrilling....and it helped my car control immensely!!!!

I also attended this last year & plan on going again!!!!

For the fellow P car drivers....I HAVE LOTS of street tires that will work well in the rain....they will fit 944's no doubt and might work on 911's......I have 8 mounted 225/50-16's (16x7x65mm wheels) + 7 mounted 265/35-18's (18x10x65mm) nearly full tread street tires..... available to loan for whomever might need them at the class....."rental" fee is a drink at dinner at Casa Ramos!

9juanjuan

Hey Rennlist,

A lively discussion! Absolutely rain is a blast. I'm going to try to seek out a few rain days this winter myself for practice.

Driving in rain is an awesome teacher. Rain teaches you to feel your connection to the road and what it really means to be smooth on the controls. And it teaches the central theme of racing -- overcoming the challenges. If you are good in the rain you will be quicker and more confident in the dry. That's why exceptional drivers like Darin find the rain favors their driving. I wish we could order up a rain day so we could have a special class in the rain!

So two years ago the forecast was for rain. Everyone that signed up made it there. But I had one racer that was adamant he was not driving in the rain. His sparring buddies must have twisted his arm because he did end up going out. Well he turned out to be one of the more fun drivers to watch in the practice race at the end of the day as he and his rival went door to door through T1 multiple times. He went on to do well that season, made a run for the 25, and finished respectably.

For those of you that would like to sign up and don't have rain tires, take up Brian on his offer. Or borrow a set of Turbo Fuchs from your buddies. The crappiest street tires will be better than slicks in the rain. And who knows, we might get unlucky and it will be dry.

About rentals, yes there will be some Spec Miata rentals and probably some E30s too. And I just noticed Mike's note about the 911's. I'll get some contact phone numbers up on the web site. The one thing I will say is that you really need to be comfortable in your race car for the clinic to work. So you don't want the clinic to be your first drive in the rental. For those of you that are licensed, Thunderhill will likely run a test day on Friday, so you should plan on driving the rental that day.

Thanks!
-Juan
ArtOfRoadRacing@gmail.com

DTFASTBEAR

Hey guys,

Dean, here. I wanted to make sure that we address the question of different sanctioning bodies having different rules, cultures and mentalities. This is an important part of our curriculum and our philosophy. Knowing who you are racing with is critical, and we cover the racing room rules for several different groups in the clinic based on who is attending. Having raced with the PRC, I'm very familiar with the Guidelines. They serve as an excellent example of how groups have their own, specific rules. We discuss how this plays out on track as well as in the paddock.

Hope to see many of you at the clinic. I'm working on a lot of new material, including a lot more video examples.

Cheers,

Dean

9juanjuan

Hey Rennlist,

I got a PM about rain refund policy that I thought I'd answer here since others might be wondering about it too. We offer no refund in the event of rain. First, there isn't the budget for it. Our philosophy is to keep the program as affordable as possible. If we had to budget for rain refunds we would have to charge more. And that isn't fair for the guy that was committed to come rain or shine.

The other factor is that we can only accommodate drivers that are fully committed to come and participate. Make sure you read the web site to understand better. The main organization of the track activities is to combine three students and one instructor into a four car "sparring group." This means that each driver has to pull their weight so that their sparring partners get the full benefit of the exercises. Further we go to great lengths to try to match drivers and car types together. So we can't just juggle people around at the last minute.

Bottom line is that we ask each student and each instructor for their complete commitment to participate. This is surely different than other programs. But we find it's highly effective. And there are a lot of good racing lessons here separate from the driving aspect.

Thanks!
-Juan