Van

Here's some footage of my qualifying lap at Mosport this weekend. I'd enjoy any critique or comments people have. Car is a 944 Turbo, manual steering, 2950 lbs with me in it.

ZSA Motorsport

van, we never got to meet but i believe we raced together this past weekend. i had the 3.2l boxster.
the laps look good but maybe too much breaking in 1,2 and 4. i thin in our cars a slight lift/brush into 2 and some maintenance throttle at the top to ge tthe car going downhill and to keep the car compressed on the springs is key. and then in 4 slightly lift, maybe a brush to set the nose.

i had fast laps in the 134 range thursday but friday wasnt there, and upon looking at data i realized that on thursday i was brushing and then giving some early maintenance throttle just before entering the downhill at 2 and it was amazing how much of a difference this made. with the maintenance blip, i went to full power later, bu ti was on rails cruising down 2, rather than overcoasting. difference was almost 2 seconds from entry of 2 to entry of 5a.

same thing with 4. the littlest pause to go to power and it was a second loss to the top of the straight away. a small lift and full power down and it was another second or two.

my best in the G class boxster was a 134.1 but i left about a second on the table there. just couldnt get the car to rotate as well as thurs. better tires offset that.

also, i could be just me, but i like videos from within the car so i can see the wheel, steering input, shifter movement. i find that side action difficult to relate to.

here's a video of my qualifying and then race start in the G class.


a lot could be setup. setup is always important but we spent all day thursday and all day friday trying different things. ultimately, we softened up the car a ton and put weight up front, ran more fuel than necessary and the coolsuit system despite not using it, just to keep the nose down under power, which kep tthe car more stable during 2 and 4 descending under power.

and we ran a bit less pressure in the tires than we might normally run in the hoosiers.

still, there was a second there as we started to develop some understeer and i had to wait a smidge more than desired before going back to full power.

997gt3north

Mosport is my local track - I drive a 997gt3 - so if my comments don't work for your car - disregard.

Turn #10
If you are 'qualifying', there is now pavement outside the trackout rumblestrip onto the front straight - to be fast, you have to use it.

Turn #2
You have to carry more speed over the hill into double apex - this is difficult to do as the car gets unweighted over the hill but you have to figure out how to make your car do this - very, very important

Turn #3
It is a very, very late apex - you are over braking into #3 - need to carry more speed in

Turn 4
You have to get your foot to the floor much earlier to carry more speed down the hill - way more

Turn #8
I don't know the weight of your car, your tires or your brakes - BUT, you are braking 100 yards to early into Double Apex #8 (maybe more) - many people take 8 as a single very late Apex - local knowledge says double apex with max entry speed is faster. When taken as a double apex, believe it or not, your goal is to take the brakes to or slightly after just touching the first set of turtles on the right - if you are not braking up to this point you have left lots of time improvement to make - my guess is you have at least 1 second on entry into first apex. In my street heavy 997gt3, and at higher speed, I can brake 100 yards after you start braking.

Mosport is the ultimate entry speed difficult braking track imo:
- Downhill braking into #1 (some cars ABS don't like this)
- braking over the hill into 2A (this is very, very difficult to get correct)
- braking way around the corner into 3 (don't scrub too much speed too early)
- braking over the hill into 4 (Mosport Turn #4 is hard for pros)
- braking up and over the hill into 5a (can easily upset ABS as car gets light)
- most people brake way too early for 8 - using a double apex allows you to focus on the first turtles as a marker point - helps tremendously)

At Mosport, it really, really helps to get a ride along with a top pro to understand what is possible and the technique required to enter #2, #4 and #8 correctly.

38D

GT3north summed it up well...nuff said IMO.

Btw, the camera angle make it quite difficult to judge the line, but it feels like you are way wide into T8. I'm with Gt3North on taking that as a double apex (and FWIW that is what the ALMS guys do too).

Van

Nice driving Steve! Good insight GT3north - have any video examples of the double apex in 8?

Here's more of the same:


I can see my line isn't as tidy as Steve's. And while I wanted to brake later for some turns, it seemed my feet weren't agreeing with my brain.

997gt3north

2 more comments with new footage

1) your initial turnin at the top of 4 is too sharp - it is causing you to run out of track on the downhill on the left and thus preventing you from matting the throttle - you should be able to hit the brakes at maybe 20mph faster

2) between 8 and 9 - you have to treat this as a mini straight and mat the throttle - your speed stays the same on one lap and maybe picks up 1 mph on lap 2 - you need to be very aggressive here - again, treat 9 as an entry speed corner - absolutely as much entry speed as possible with late trail braking around the corner - get on the throttle hard, brake later, harder and carry the speed around the corner - between 9 and 10 is a throw away to some extent so you have to maximize entry into 9 - because of above, make sure you are in correct gear for max HP as the time under throttle on entry into 9 and again between 9 and 10 is very short

Of all the tracks I have done, Mosport stands on it's own, by a mile, in terms of highlighting superior braking technique to maximize entry speed - every single turn, with the exception of 10, you cannot get close to 10/10 unless you really nail the braking. While it is always true that maximizing exit speed is key, since at Mosport an off is almost always a near write-off, you really don't lose that much time at track out - but you will see the better cars just kill you in the corners at Mosport. As an example, different tires I know, but look how much distance the greenish cup car puts on you in #3 and #4.

A few more visits to Mosport and you can easily drop a few seconds - but I highly encourage you, if you can, to hire a pro to accelerate your learning. You can do hundreds of laps on your own and still never figure out #2. #8 is easier as when you take it as a double apex, having those turtles on the right and braking right to them makes it a much easier corner. #4 isn't as difficult to get correct, it is just a very fast corner and almost always is limited by ones willingness to be airlifted to a hospital.

gums

1. Switch your cameras so that the big image is the track, and the driver is the smaller one
2. gt3 north is giving great advice, I'd go with it. Seems like you're overslowing the car nearly every corner.
3. Most important now, only because I've been through this myself; your seating position is too far forward. Your head is right up against the cage header. Very dangerous. Move your position back, and put a spacer in the steering column if need be. Your knees look bent up anyway, so I don't think legroom is an issue. It also looks like your net is in a pretty useless placement. Get that cockpit sorted out!

Charles A. Toupin

I do turn 8 with a single late apex. I did the track walk with Rick Bye on Friday. The questions was asked if turn 8 could be done as a double apex. The answer from Mr. Bye was a definitive no, unless you are driving a 1000 lbs car like a Formula 1600, in which case it is actually quicker. He told us to follow the concrete patch which the is "pro drivers" line and leave our outside tire on it. Mr. Bye has about 50 000 laps around this track.

c.

997gt3north

If you watch an AMLS race at Mosport, many many cars do it as a double apex. I can name the pros that have shown me and others this line - in a 911gt3 it is faster - at least a car or 2 + there is more grip inside. As I said, there are 2 lines. One of the reasons it is also faster for beginners at the track is that it is so much easier to get your braking marker correct. With this line, you start braking much later and towards the turtles (ie diagonally across the track) - your turn is narrower but grip is higher and you carry way more speed in.

This is a highly debated topic at Mosport - I also believe it is car / driver dependent - driver more than car sometimes - sometimes car more than driver. I know that when I have chased a certain Boxster who does the single apex - I just can't keep up with him if I try and follow his single apex line. For me and my rear engined GT3, I am about 3 cars faster using the double apex.

The other thing about the double apex line is that you can be extremely aggressive (very late braking) and if you get it wrong you will never be in trouble - if you single apex it, and you are looking for that last 10th, there are so many ways that you can total your car between 8 & 9. All you have to do is hang out for a few DEs at Mosport to see what happens - the only way to save it, is to bail very early and not attempt the corner at all - if you start to lose it and haven't bailed, you are going in for sure.

One of the fastest drivers I have ever seen, single apexes it in his FWD very light touring car - for me, in a rear engine 911 - it is a double apex.

Charles A. Toupin

Yes, it may be car dependent. But in a 944, braking, when you do (I don't in the 924, I do a bit in the 944 - a bit quicker), is very very late and doing the late single apex line. Even if I get it wrong, there is a sea of asphalt after the grass. This turn is very forgiving imho. But what do I know. I drive a 140hp car...

It may be different in a GT3.

For the ALMS lines see:
c.