FredC

Why aren't people driving a rimshot (staying outside) until it is time to make the hard right... I should have been clearer. Thanks.

bobt993

Fred you really have to defend the inside of T8 and by running a tighter line you end up with a better transition to grab inside curbing early. You can easily be too late in T8. I have followed cars running the outside line and while they get a little bit of distance going wide they have to really brake hard and turn sharp to get into the apex of T8. It is a tough corner and I will try anything to perfect it. The cost of losing in T8 is huge, if you get past there on the last lap your toast to the checker.

FredC

Totally agreed in a race situation. But say you're alone, trying to get the fastest time possible...

bobt993

I did this with Cervelli in car and have followed David Donohue on lap warm ups. Both seem to like the tighter line and rolling into the apex of T8. Just about any race car on R6s can maintain near 60mph min speed through the apex and mid corner. For the outside line that I have data on cars typically hit under 50mph. The other factor I notice is lack of a definitive brake marker on the outside line. Speed traces are flatter at the end revealing partial lifts before braking. The big issue I determined in the final line is 4 channel ABS vs non ABS cars. That is a entire thread on it's own.

Circuit Motorsports

In the SRF it was a matter of too much distance at the speeds I was traveling. I'd cut that corner tight drive straight towards the bleachers, brake, turn in and the way the SRF was setup it would rotate perfectly to setup for the octopus. I was .5-.75 seconds faster running that line through there than the people I was racing against. When I'd run a rimshot line I could never make up any ground on them but would make huge gains 'cutting' the corner. More speed/power with street car handling I can see the rimshot being faster on the qualifying mentality though.

Veloce Raptor

Couldn't agree more. I have not yet had the pleasure of walking either track at NJMP, but am sure it would reveal many more secrets! IMO walking or riding a bike on a track is one of the most effective learning tools...

Agree with Bob regarding the entry to the Octopussy...plus this (tighter entryy) seems to be where the cars I have been in & driiven there want to go. There is a lot to be said for lettging the car go where it knows/wants to go......

Frank 993 C4S

+1000 another plug for Bob and Larry and Schattenbaum.

NJcroc

I have found that staying close allows the use of the inside curbing for both visual aid, and also will let you use them to generate extra grip, on a very slippery corner. The outside always has a ton of debris. It also sets up a cleaner line towards the carousel area.

This can be very different on street tires or a very heavy car with lower grip levels

And yes in a race it would be instant loss of position

mhm993

The miata, which changes direction in the octopus with less effort, especially likes driving the inside DE line, closely following the curb, and exiting in the middle of the track for the left. The curbing is very much a visual cue.

Now, by practical need, if you take t4 fast you only have time to enter t5 in middle of the track, but I can't say that I realized the camber flattens on the outside. Alex, maybe we need to organize another hour of drinking and walking....

ProCoach

That's why I placed it there...

ProCoach

The reason why people shouldn't drive the rimshot through T8 is because

a) you need to fully commit to throttle for as long as you can and

b) you have a static visual to aim to in order to get to the proper turn in point (depth wise) and

c) you're still turning when it comes time to brake for T9 if you take the rim shot.

No, it does not make it harder to turn in for T9 if the speed is properly controlled. Everyone needs to slow for T9 so go ahead and do that most efficiently, then trail in to begin the rotation. The entry angle is of little or no importance.

Shedding the requisite speed from T8 exit to T9 entrance (and in the shortest distance possible so you don't overshoot T9) is the primary desire.

And yes, I laid the curbs out and I've done mid 1:22's (no chicane) with 125 hp...

por944s2

I'm late to this session and have learned much, thanks for all the input. Here is one of my better laps in my 1991 944S2 Club Sport, 2750 wo a driver, newer R6's 245/35/18, 285/30/18, LSD is Torque Biased, m030 everything else. I should be able to shave time and any suggestions/criticisms would be greatly appreciated. My view: T1 can be faster(Can get serious *** wiggle under heavy braking), T2 need more speed, T3 need to be faster but need to grow a pair, T4 I'm soso, T5 struggle with wheel spin on inside line, T6-T7 ok, T8 need help...
This car is new to me and has a clutch issue, that when downshifting you get heavy vibration if you don't slightly over-rev and this really shows up in T8.


First time uploading video, hope it works. Thanks in advance...

bobt993

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, your over slowing the car for T1. Try not braking so late to start and working up to a higher entry speed (target over 70mph). Maintain the speed through the corner with light throttle and determine when you can apply hard throttle. T2, your a little early or need to add a bit of inside curbing. 80mph in a front engine car is not bad apex speed, but your track position suffers on exit tossing you over the gators very early. T3 speed is not that bad and I would not work on that at this time. T4 your giving up the large radius (using more curbing) to the inside of the corner of T5. Look through T4 to the far left side of the track (down by T5) instead of arcing the car back to the right. Harder throttle leaving the apex of T4 and get the car straight to slow the car down before T5. Take T5 on the inside and follow the worn curbing. Speed in, very light then progressive throttle as you exit. Your speed trace should be flatter through T5 by maintaining more midcorner speed. There is more over T6,7,8 but I would work on the first half to start.

por944s2

Bob,

Thanks for the info. I need to study my TM data, and see what speeds I'm running. Usually in T4 I use all the track and find the curbing upsets the car more then the preceive speed gain, but I may just need to grow a pair. Any video you could share?

Thanks Again

bobt993

If the car is upset from the curbing then your not loading the left side of the car early. The turn radius for T4 is very large and the return to hard throttle is not until after the apex. Look at your lat G data. G load should be building well before the apex in T4. Below is a trace of what this looks like. While this is not an ideal lap it does show what a speed trace will look like when you make smooth transitions. Notice the entry speed in T1 is the same throughout the corner. Commit to entry speed and be patient with the throttle. Work to get rid of large "troughs" in your corners and you will pick up a bunch time just there.