Originally Posted by Paddy

Jeff, come up to Chin over the 4th of July holiday. I'll be there working w/ VR in my 993 and would be cool to see some data between two similar cars. I'm close to G-class with the exception of full weight and an open diff. I think I have the Moton Motorsports figured out, but we'll see what VR says. Also, I know there's a 2:09 in my car on the full course. Best I could muster last week was a 2:11.6... Looking forward to getting VR in the passenger seat.

Here's a video with the JIC setup and full rubber: http://vimeo.com/9902811

-Paddy

Originally Posted by Mahler9th

More from the peanut gallery. Some great comments already. First some questions....

What kind of car is it? Is it a heavier car on big sticky DOTS? Or a light car on big sticky slicks? Or what, exactly?

How much experience do you have? How much in DE situations where you had an instructor and/or were highly focused on the craft? Is this what you focus on most of the time in the paddock?

How do you know you are that far off the pace? I believe that as it stands, a specific car has a specific performance potential. This varies even by the nanosecond, but let us say on a specific day at a specific track it has x potential for y laptime. How do you know you are consistently going slower than y? Do you go faster and faster each session, each day on a given weekend or are you truly stuck at z laptime, with z being slower than what you assess as y (fastest possible for your car)?

Do you feel less than expert with all types of braking situations or just some types? If so, what types?

Do you use video in the car? If so do you have something in the camera FOV that allows you to watch and know when the brakes are coming on? In my experience this can be very helpful, and moves you far, far along the benefit curve in terms of data acq. use to identify driver performance improvement opportunities.

Have you taken many rides in your own car or a very similar car as Scott has suggested? Do you feel confident in that situation that the car will slow down or do you have the same types of feelings of... uncertainty as when you drive your own car?

___________

I like the comments on weight transfer, but in some braking situations for some types of corners this may be a lot less valuable

I like the comments on keeping the eyes up, that is kind of a given.

I like Scott's comments about riding with others in your car or very similar cars that are lapping closer to y consistently. And perhaps focusing on the feeling you get as they get "up on the tires." I worked hard with my wife on that in turn 2 at Thunderhill which is an excellent 3rd gear sweeper type of turn for this type of thing. Do you have turns where you can particularly focus on this type of passenger seat-of-the pants deal?

I like the comments on is it the car or the driver, that is whether your car is reasonably well set up or if it has an unusual problem on turn in, corner entry, et cetera. I can think of a number of situations with a heavy car or a light car might have a prep/set-up issue that might cause trepidation. And especially a turbocharged car.

I am not sure what they teach in other places. In this thread and others I have heard mention of DE instruction teaching late apexes and braking only in a straight line. I have been at this since 1987 and instructing for a long time as well, and I have never heard of anyone teaching those things to newbies. If it does happen, I am not sure I would agree with the approach... in any case I cannot assume braking only in a straight line is holding you back. Do you think it is?

Great that you will be getting some coaching. I am not a believer that the best coaches are those that race, or used to race. To me racing has nothing to do with teaching people to go faster. One of the best instructors I know does not race. He is an excellent driver and instructor, multi-time CDI, and an excellent teacher.

I started at LRP back in '87 and later came out here to NorCal and started doing DE's where there was a strong time trial culture. Here in the PCA Golden Gate Region. Here I noticed a super high percentage of the attendees had a super high percentage of focus on the craft of going faster. Not a lot of complaining about passing and traffic, or talk about Motons, which brands of sticky tires, is it the car or is it the driver, what type of camera are you running, what type of data acq. do you have, oxygenated fuel adding significant bhp, and all of the more modern stuff. Lots of conversation in the paddock about how to go faster. Just a lot of the folks (men and women) excited to learn to go faster and prep for the Sunday afternoon time trial where everyone would be watching, What I have seen in these more modern times with other groups are folks that get off the learning path really early early in their experience... and they get stuck. Caught up in all of the muck. Off the learning path. I have especially seen this with attendees of events put on by businesses that have a very limited number of qualified instructors available. So great that you will work with someone on going faster... and of course consider doing it for more than just one event.

To me, in the end, no one can tell you how much or when to brake. There are lots of ways to identify opportunities for input changes that can help one use, and more consistently use the car's performance potential x, to achieve, and/or more consistently achieve lap time y or darn near close to it.

I always start with the same approach for myself and my students... instead of braking focus, I like to focus on exit speed. The concept of losing just enough speed, and no more, to achieve optimal exit speed. And by that the earliest possible achievement of WOT, or in cases between corners (puzzle pieces) whatever percentage of throttle opening is the most I can get at the soonest time. I got this from the Skip Barber video back in 1987 before my first ever driving event in my 944 at LRP. He says something like... you can reduce laptimes by hundredths by braking later, you can achieve reductions of tenths by getting to the gas sooner. As a result, I never suggest to a student to brake later or less hard. Instead I suggest considering losing less speed to achieve what we both agree (and comfortably agree) is an improvement on the achievement of WOT. Subtle difference that seems to work with many of my students. In my car I have a green light that is connected to a microswitch on the throttle body so I can see when WOT happens in the video. If I want I can break this down to a video frame. And of course I have the old school light in the FOV that comes on with the brakes.

Good luck and please let us know how things go with your coaching session(s).

Originally Posted by flatsics

I don't know what the set-up is on your car, but you might consider lowering your spring rates a bit. On coil spring cars I think a lot of guys go too stiff to start out, because that's what the "fast" set-up is. Lowering the spring rates can help the car to not be so twitchy--- more comfortable to find the limit.

Going fast is all about confidence--in your car, your abilities, the track surface, and those around you. Doubting any of those things will slow you down.

Originally Posted by Laguna_Dude

Data.... get a data acquisition system. It's been growing ***** for years...

Originally Posted by jscott82

I should also mention, I am gearing up for my first race since almost totaling the car during my rookie race in 08..... I don’t “think” this is in my head but I’m sure its back there somewhere….

Originally Posted by Paddy

Jeff, come up to Chin over the 4th of July holiday. I'll be there working w/ VR in my 993 and would be cool to see some data between two similar cars. I'm close to G-class with the exception of full weight and an open diff. I think I have the Moton Motorsports figured out, but we'll see what VR says. Also, I know there's a 2:09 in my car on the full course. Best I could muster last week was a 2:11.6... Looking forward to getting VR in the passenger seat.

Here's a video with the JIC setup and full rubber: http://vimeo.com/9902811

-Paddy

Originally Posted by trophy

..... if you decide to start knitting, I will be visiting you with a baseball bat to beat some sense into you.

Originally Posted by Paddy

It's quite expensive, but you can easily get four hours on track each day. We'll have to catch up later this year.

Originally Posted by naroescape

Don't you just feel the love

Originally Posted by jscott82

In my case, I think you are on to something.... I tend to do one of three things...
Threshold brake starting at right point, but chicken out when it’s time to turn… continue braking and turn too late.
Try to force myself to make the turn-in but again testies shrivel up and I try to brake too hard, get into ABS, and miss turn-in again
Brake earlier, and end up with time to rub-one-out before its time to turn in….

Any ideas???? Or should I just sell the car and take up knitting…

Originally Posted by winders

M758,

You don't have to spin off the track to know you have exceeded the limit. Plus, I don't think that "Go off a few times if you must" is the right attitude.

Scott