winders

Jeff,

Back from my motorcycle racing and racing instruction days and what I experienced as an autocrosser and autocross instructor, what Bob says is very true. If you are not looking through the apex and beyond, everything seems to be moving too fast so you tend to slow down too much or too soon...sometimes both.

Another point to consider, even if you are looking through the corner, is your comfort level. Anything faster that what you have done before is going to feel a little uncomfortable even if there is plenty of headroom to go faster. It's new territory.

When I first started autocrossing, I overcame this problem by putting a faster driver in my car and going along for the ride. That gave me the understanding of what my car could do and the confidence to try it. A mistake on the autocross course was not a big deal. So I would take a more conservative approach on the big track. Sneak up on the limit versus finding it and exceeding it.

So I would recommend having a good instructor that is faster than you drive your car and you take a ride with them. Then have them help you push your personal limit a bit by braking a little bit less or a bit latter...maybe even both. It will be a little bit uncomfortable, but, assuming there are no surprises and nothing bad happens, you will gain confidence. Soon, your personal limit will have you braking more appropriately into the corner.

Scott

P.S. I just read the part about the accident. That's can really mess with your head. A good coach should be able to help you with that too so I would definitely talk about that with him.

bobt993

Jeff, hook up with a mentor in your club that races. Do some drills at a local DE and follow the lead driver around the track. Having them up your game one lap at a time. You may also want to have someone ride with you. One technique Larry I use is backing up the brake marker and coming off the brakes much sooner to bring up corner entry speeds. Once we can see a consistent improvement in mid-corner, we then move onto exit power, then back to a more aggressive later braking point. Always simplify your tasks at hand to one goal at a time. In fact, consider not even worrying about downshifting until your pedal effort is precise. Maximize grip on entry. Chris Cervelli drilled this into my head forcing me to put the car into a grip situation where all four tires are working. Trying to brake later is much more difficult if you don't have the entry speeds correct first. Just too much car balance going on to get it right without being lucky.

sig_a

Consider this from deep in the peanut gallery -

Talk to others driving similar cars and see where they begin to brake. So at Putnam, I grew too comfortable braking at the 300' marker. Others said they brake at the 200' marker. So I tired that and it worked. I was surprised the lack of drama. Next up, Mid Ohio where I will hold past 500' to 400'. However, T-7 is notorious for throwing cowboys.

ProCoach

Glad this works for you, but I disagree with this. They're two separate things.

The OP's issue is not going in, it's coming OUT of the brake zone.

People don't generally brake too hard, they brake too LONG.

It's all in the data, but if you need to shed speed for a corner, you should do it in the shortest distance possible and hence, take the shortest time to do it.

Also, when you come off the brake, you autonomically need to go back to SOME throttle. The simple act of turning slows the car and you MUST counteract that.

Veloce Raptor

Respectfully disagree. It's both, actually.

mglobe

First of all, I have less experience than either of you, so I appreciate both of your comments.

My suggestion was a simply a way for the OP to lower the intensity of the experience coming into the braking/turning zone. This might make it easier for him to experience how the car and driver feel with more entry speed into the turn, at apex, and on exit.

Once he's comfortable with pushing the limits of lateral grip a bit more than he has been, he then could get back to working on his braking technique at higher speeds as Peter suggests. Worked for me, might work for others.

jscott82

In my case, I think you are on to something.... I tend to do one of three things...
Threshold brake starting at right point, but chicken out when it’s time to turn… continue braking and turn too late.
Try to force myself to make the turn-in but again testies shrivel up and I try to brake too hard, get into ABS, and miss turn-in again
Brake earlier, and end up with time to rub-one-out before its time to turn in….

Any ideas???? Or should I just sell the car and take up knitting…

jscott82

lower the intensity is what the Dr ordered... I think

Veloce Raptor

Hey...you're working with a coach shortly. He/she will likely see all of these things & maybe more, if they are worth their salt. Do you log data in your car? if so, after your coaching engagement is over, email me your 2 best sessions, and we can look for more things. Or, alternately, i will be at VIR for a full week from July 4 to July 10. Come on by & we can do it in person!

NaroEscape

His thread name is correct: he needs to grow bigger *****. That's all.
Oh, and take his tu-tu off too...

jscott82

ha... was wondering how long it would take for you to chime in....

NaroEscape

What are friends for?

Van

I don't mean to steal your thread - this is about your driving, not mine... but I thought you'd like to see this data. I'm driving the blue trace, someone with far more experience is driving the red trace. Notice 2 things: the peaks in braking force vs. the nice "flat-topped mountains", and the friction circles. The red driver was able to keep the car much more balanced going into the corners which, in this case yielded a faster lap time.

Do you have any data we can look at?

(Also, as a side note, I've been driving this car for 11 years; the blue driver had done 3 laps!)

NaroEscape

Actually, and in all seriousness, I have an idea of what you're doing from when I did ride with you:

1) yes, the wreck is in your head, so you're just going to have to get over that, nobody can do that but you.
2) but what you're doing is this: you're braking at the right time, and just when you should lift off the brake, you jab it just a bit harder, like you're unsure of yourself and your speed. That destroys any momentum.
3) plus...I'm not convinced you're car is still really set up. Maybe it's me, but it felt way too tail happy when I tried to push it.

I think many of us do what was said above, and focus on our braking point instead of 'eyes up' into the turn. focus on being 'there' - up ahead, not being 'here' - where you currently are. This is why many of us go faster when we're chasing someone, we're focusing on catching them - looking ahead, and not necessarily what is happening directly under our car.

Who's coaching you, Brian?

NaroEscape

something David Murry said at Sebring, and I talked to him about it more afterward: We all (ok, all of us hobbiests) tend to brake early, and in a straight line like we were taught in DE's. It's safe, and completely in control: brake in a straight line, lift off the brake, feather the throttle, and full power at the apex. He suggested trying to do more trail braking - brake later, ease off the brake to about 1/3 pressure at tune in, and carry it toward the apex before coming fully off and onto the accelerator.

whoever's coaching you, ask him to pay attention to your braking, and see if what I said about the last minute jab of pressure is what he notices.