ASK THE COACH
07-07-2019, 05:26 PM
#3182
Rennlist Member
OK. T9. There are a million ways through there, and I'm not going to opine about a "right" way. But I will offer here some pointers to help maximize grip, chassis stability, confidence, and overall segment speed.
Again, topography & a track walk are our friends. People call T9 the "off camber" but it really isn't. It does have some camber at and near the apex but it rapidly flattens out the wider you go.It is an uphill brake zone that crests at the very end. Thus, gravity aids our braking, and we really don't need a lot of brake pressure here, relatively. Many people brake too late and or too hard here, and it kills them in the corner. Brake a bit early and softly, just enough to get the car to squat into the hill and give some bite to the front tires. Don't feel the need to be all the way track right before turning in. In fact, this can be counter-productive, since, again, the wider our you are, the less beneficial camber there is. If you're too wide, you'll kill the RF tire trying to get the car to turn in (in this regard, T9 is very similar to T6).
After T8 track out, I'll bring the car maybe 3/4 of the way drivers right as I initiate braking into the hill, and start rolling my hands into the apex of T9 relatively early, but sloooowly. My eyes at turn in are on the apex curb, looking for the far end of it. The goal is to get into the apex (where the best grip/camber is) soon, and hold it a bit before detaching. This is a common theme at the Glen, IMO: apexes that are elongated zones rather than spots.Once I am into the apex, my eyes go up to begin searching way down track for either one of the NASCAR brake marker signs before T10 or the blue roof of the T10 corner station. Either one is a great visual that puts your eyes where you want to go, rather than at the T9 track out and the very close Armco. You won't see either initially, but KEEP LOOKING. They will appear instantly, and focus your eyes and thus your hands on a proper exit arc.
As you begin detaching from the T9 apex, and are rolling on throttle, consciously begin sloooowly unwinding steering. Many many people hold steering there way too long, because they are looking at & are scared of the Armco. This is sub-optimal, and causes violent spins if the driver lifts even a little bit. Look way down track & begin unwinding early. You will use ALL the track at track out (but not the grass) and will be 100% wheels straight at track out. You should be 100% full power at this point...but even if you need to lift there (for a spun car, for example), since your wheels will be totally straight, nothing will happen!
Questions?
Again, topography & a track walk are our friends. People call T9 the "off camber" but it really isn't. It does have some camber at and near the apex but it rapidly flattens out the wider you go.It is an uphill brake zone that crests at the very end. Thus, gravity aids our braking, and we really don't need a lot of brake pressure here, relatively. Many people brake too late and or too hard here, and it kills them in the corner. Brake a bit early and softly, just enough to get the car to squat into the hill and give some bite to the front tires. Don't feel the need to be all the way track right before turning in. In fact, this can be counter-productive, since, again, the wider our you are, the less beneficial camber there is. If you're too wide, you'll kill the RF tire trying to get the car to turn in (in this regard, T9 is very similar to T6).
After T8 track out, I'll bring the car maybe 3/4 of the way drivers right as I initiate braking into the hill, and start rolling my hands into the apex of T9 relatively early, but sloooowly. My eyes at turn in are on the apex curb, looking for the far end of it. The goal is to get into the apex (where the best grip/camber is) soon, and hold it a bit before detaching. This is a common theme at the Glen, IMO: apexes that are elongated zones rather than spots.Once I am into the apex, my eyes go up to begin searching way down track for either one of the NASCAR brake marker signs before T10 or the blue roof of the T10 corner station. Either one is a great visual that puts your eyes where you want to go, rather than at the T9 track out and the very close Armco. You won't see either initially, but KEEP LOOKING. They will appear instantly, and focus your eyes and thus your hands on a proper exit arc.
As you begin detaching from the T9 apex, and are rolling on throttle, consciously begin sloooowly unwinding steering. Many many people hold steering there way too long, because they are looking at & are scared of the Armco. This is sub-optimal, and causes violent spins if the driver lifts even a little bit. Look way down track & begin unwinding early. You will use ALL the track at track out (but not the grass) and will be 100% wheels straight at track out. You should be 100% full power at this point...but even if you need to lift there (for a spun car, for example), since your wheels will be totally straight, nothing will happen!
Questions?
07-15-2019, 02:31 PM
#3183
Three Wheelin'
So I have been working on T1 at Watkins, (I was discussing this the other day with my friend.) Im how do they say in French "Sans"-Data acquisition Right now.. Anyhow.. There was one particular lap that I hit T1 Perfect... or at least lets say better than I normally do. The only way I knew this was going into T2 …..I was Carrying so much speed that I "Breathed" off the throttle...(and lost my T1 Gain) before going into 2 I'm usually Just shifting into 4th RIGHT before track in in at 2 , But I was already in 4th and making boost. The problem was that I don't know what I did so Right in T1 because the results of a good T1 Don't show until T2? Even on my camera, I have no Idea what lap it was... Ive been developing myself and the car the last year, and I did not see the need for Data Acquisition at that point. There were other things to work on. But I think I'm at "That" point... Ideas? and yes next time Ill just hold my foot to the floor....
07-15-2019, 02:45 PM
#3184
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So I have been working on T1 at Watkins, (I was discussing this the other day with my friend.) Im how do they say in French "Sans"-Data acquisition Right now.. Anyhow.. There was one particular lap that I hit T1 Perfect... or at least lets say better than I normally do. The only way I knew this was going into T2 …..I was Carrying so much speed that I "Breathed" off the throttle...(and lost my T1 Gain) before going into 2 I'm usually Just shifting into 4th RIGHT before track in in at 2 , But I was already in 4th and making boost. The problem was that I don't know what I did so Right in T1 because the results of a good T1 Don't show until T2? Even on my camera, I have no Idea what lap it was... Ive been developing myself and the car the last year, and I did not see the need for Data Acquisition at that point. There were other things to work on. But I think I'm at "That" point... Ideas? and yes next time Ill just hold my foot to the floor....
What do you have for a camera? If it's a Go Pro w/ GPS, look at this https://www.race-technology.com/gb/r...deo_gopro-only If you are thinking of moving to data, what's the budget? You could be from a simple Solo 2 all the way to a full system, but it sounds like you could get some good results with a simple Solo 2.
07-15-2019, 03:36 PM
#3185
Three Wheelin'
Im using some Chepo- $30 go pro knockoff... Works ok I guess. Incremental was exactly what I was doing, I started Braking going into T1 at 400Ft... I'm Braking now halfway between 300 and 200... Every DE Ive shaved 2 to 3 seconds working on specific sections of the Track, One time I lost the rear going into 1, Caught it.... then tried turning again and felt it slide again, I Decided to be conservative and go 4 wheels off and bring it back.. Slow steps for me... Hopefully my first race will be next spring at the clash. Im 5 seconds off the fastest guy in the class im going to run in (Trackaddict app, and I don't look at it till the session is over) but I'm also on 3 year old Toyos and Just getting the shock and springs sway bar settings right. I just got new Toyos (Wider as well) and will see how they do. Was going to go for a one day Trackmasters this week but I believe that tropical depression will be above the Glen when the event is.. To be honest.. One of my Biggest Gains that made me faster was the seat...Full Halo containment, Lowered it so its about 6mm from the floorplan and now I feel "connected" to the car like I'm part of it and I'm not sitting "on" it..
I purposely did not invest in any "good" Data Acquisition because when I do I will go with the full dash, inputs for tire temps Ect.. I'm just not there yet. I'm Close... I figure about 2K Budget. .. . when I actually hit a plateau then it is time.. Maybe over the winter.
I purposely did not invest in any "good" Data Acquisition because when I do I will go with the full dash, inputs for tire temps Ect.. I'm just not there yet. I'm Close... I figure about 2K Budget. .. . when I actually hit a plateau then it is time.. Maybe over the winter.
07-15-2019, 04:58 PM
#3186
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Congrats on doing Turn 1 "right." That's a great corner and as you found out, easy to figure out that you did it better than the other times. If you're like most folks, you'll pick up more, quicker, by reviewing video than looking at squiggly lines, but that's just my experience.
If you just want video with speeds and lap times on it, the Garmin ViRB is a good choice, Waylens makes a nice piece and there is the GoPro Hero 7/Race-Technology combo that would work well, every one of these is less than $500.
The Solo 2 is a great little device because of the real-time feedback that shows if you're improving or not, compared to your previous quickest lap that session. If you pick corners and look at it before and after, you can tell by how much! I have a lot of equipment for sale that doesn't need a full blown dash setup to help you find a lot of time, but those are an option, too.
The fact that you've moved your braking zone in is great, but as you do that, you do reach a point where the transition coming off the brakes and turning gets more tricky, as you've experienced.
My recommendation is to focus on throttle application. Improve (lessen) the amount of time between release of most of the brake and hearing the engine note RISE. When you apply throttle, try to keep the engine note continuing to rise, not just a steady, unchanging tone.
Usually, as they get better, most drivers in Turn 1 will come off the brake closer to the apex, but that is only half the deal.
The other half is making sure that as you come off the brake, there is enough throttle applied and continuing to be applied not only to offset the drag in cornering and steering scrub but also to make the engine note go up, not just stay the same, or heaven forbid, fall even after throttle is applied (amazing how many people don't realize how much that happens until they review their video).
Great stuff! Keep it going.
If you just want video with speeds and lap times on it, the Garmin ViRB is a good choice, Waylens makes a nice piece and there is the GoPro Hero 7/Race-Technology combo that would work well, every one of these is less than $500.
The Solo 2 is a great little device because of the real-time feedback that shows if you're improving or not, compared to your previous quickest lap that session. If you pick corners and look at it before and after, you can tell by how much! I have a lot of equipment for sale that doesn't need a full blown dash setup to help you find a lot of time, but those are an option, too.
The fact that you've moved your braking zone in is great, but as you do that, you do reach a point where the transition coming off the brakes and turning gets more tricky, as you've experienced.
My recommendation is to focus on throttle application. Improve (lessen) the amount of time between release of most of the brake and hearing the engine note RISE. When you apply throttle, try to keep the engine note continuing to rise, not just a steady, unchanging tone.
Usually, as they get better, most drivers in Turn 1 will come off the brake closer to the apex, but that is only half the deal.
The other half is making sure that as you come off the brake, there is enough throttle applied and continuing to be applied not only to offset the drag in cornering and steering scrub but also to make the engine note go up, not just stay the same, or heaven forbid, fall even after throttle is applied (amazing how many people don't realize how much that happens until they review their video).
Great stuff! Keep it going.
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
07-15-2019, 05:30 PM
#3187
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Good points.
If you have some video, it's worth using www.racers360.com as well. Dion has really curated a great group of coaches and made sure they are high quality. You can see the thread in the forum with all the great reviews!
If you have some video, it's worth using www.racers360.com as well. Dion has really curated a great group of coaches and made sure they are high quality. You can see the thread in the forum with all the great reviews!
07-29-2019, 09:54 AM
#3189
Three Wheelin'
Ok, Next Question (I cant believe more people don't take advantage of this advice)...
A LOOOOOONG Turn.... Specifically I am Referring to Turns 7 ,8 ,9, At Nelson Ledges.. Some folks say to make two Turns out of it, Some say to Kinda make it a Diamond... The way I have been approaching it is to enter it Really wide, Then Slowly bring the car in......and Apex only at the very last section of the turn (there is a little patch on the inside that I hit with my RF) and at that point Ive been on Full throttle for some time.. (I don't think this would work in a race because it leaves "the door open" ).. My Idea there is that Im carrying MAX speed on exit this way and that carries all the way down the back straight.. . There is not much banking in this turn and it seems like you're in the turn long enough to check your e-mail..
Suggestions? Im on Track This Friday and wanted to see if there is a better way..
A LOOOOOONG Turn.... Specifically I am Referring to Turns 7 ,8 ,9, At Nelson Ledges.. Some folks say to make two Turns out of it, Some say to Kinda make it a Diamond... The way I have been approaching it is to enter it Really wide, Then Slowly bring the car in......and Apex only at the very last section of the turn (there is a little patch on the inside that I hit with my RF) and at that point Ive been on Full throttle for some time.. (I don't think this would work in a race because it leaves "the door open" ).. My Idea there is that Im carrying MAX speed on exit this way and that carries all the way down the back straight.. . There is not much banking in this turn and it seems like you're in the turn long enough to check your e-mail..
Suggestions? Im on Track This Friday and wanted to see if there is a better way..
07-29-2019, 11:57 AM
#3190
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Ok, Next Question (I cant believe more people don't take advantage of this advice)...
A LOOOOOONG Turn.... Specifically I am Referring to Turns 7 ,8 ,9, At Nelson Ledges.. Some folks say to make two Turns out of it, Some say to Kinda make it a Diamond... The way I have been approaching it is to enter it Really wide, Then Slowly bring the car in......and Apex only at the very last section of the turn (there is a little patch on the inside that I hit with my RF) and at that point Ive been on Full throttle for some time.. (I don't think this would work in a race because it leaves "the door open" ).. My Idea there is that Im carrying MAX speed on exit this way and that carries all the way down the back straight.. . There is not much banking in this turn and it seems like you're in the turn long enough to check your e-mail..
Suggestions? Im on Track This Friday and wanted to see if there is a better way..
A LOOOOOONG Turn.... Specifically I am Referring to Turns 7 ,8 ,9, At Nelson Ledges.. Some folks say to make two Turns out of it, Some say to Kinda make it a Diamond... The way I have been approaching it is to enter it Really wide, Then Slowly bring the car in......and Apex only at the very last section of the turn (there is a little patch on the inside that I hit with my RF) and at that point Ive been on Full throttle for some time.. (I don't think this would work in a race because it leaves "the door open" ).. My Idea there is that Im carrying MAX speed on exit this way and that carries all the way down the back straight.. . There is not much banking in this turn and it seems like you're in the turn long enough to check your e-mail..
Suggestions? Im on Track This Friday and wanted to see if there is a better way..
07-29-2019, 01:10 PM
#3191
Three Wheelin'
I have Race chrono for just lap times... but I have Track addict as well for Video...The nice thing about Race chrono is you can cross the S/F Line and see a lap time.. that way you know what you did Right wrong in the previous lap.. it kind of works... For now.. :-)
07-29-2019, 02:19 PM
#3192
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What you want though is to take the time of just a portion of the lap. Specifically, look from the entry of Turn 7 in your example to the exit of T9. Try the various ways to see what is faster in that section.
07-29-2019, 02:40 PM
#3193
Rennlist Member
Load the files into Circuit Tools and select the "Time delta" tab in the left and compare laps to determine which approach is faster. That will get you headed in the right direction.
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Matt Romanowski (07-29-2019)
07-29-2019, 02:58 PM
#3194
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Export the files as .VBO format and then head over to https://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/ind...lysis-software and download Circuit Tools.
Load the files into Circuit Tools and select the "Time delta" tab in the left and compare laps to determine which approach is faster. That will get you headed in the right direction.
Load the files into Circuit Tools and select the "Time delta" tab in the left and compare laps to determine which approach is faster. That will get you headed in the right direction.
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ammonman (09-13-2019)
