Veloce Raptor

JR, what the F is up with him being allowed to race w/o a rear window??

924RACR

Can't say for this case, but I believe Lemons rules require removal of all glass except maybe windshield.

Maybe it's time for them to revisit that rule...

jrgordonsenior

It was a NASA time attack/race weekend and I don't know if they require a rear window....

dew-e

I see more and more chumpcar and lemons cars showing up at events. Some of them are pretty questionable, some of them are not. I think the did the glass thing because they used to expect a good amount of contact and want to limit flying glass from those kinds of incidents. If it makes the fire hazard that much higher, maybe that should be re-thought.

I wear drifire undergarments under my fire suit. I also have drifire golf shirts and long sleeve shirts that I will wear when instructing. You used to be able to buy this stuff directly from drifire at about 1/4 of what sparco and oakley charge for their underwear. I recently looked at prices and see that they are reselling through retailers now and the prices have gone up a bit. This stuff is intended for firefighters/military/police that can't wear dry-wicking non-FR underwear. The policy/military versions of the shirts have the seams off of the shoulder which is really nice when worn with a hans.

I have no affiliation with drifire, just like their products, and think the prices are much better because they don't have and SFI/FIA stamp on the shirt logo. If you are already wearing a 3 layer suit that meets current firesuit regulations, the drifire stuff is a nice option.

Veloce Raptor

So did the car catch fire in a time trial session or a race session?

claykos

I am 99% sure it was in a race (a night race, actually). I am not positive about the rules regarding removing the rear window. I know the rules specify that side windows are specifically disallowed (except if OEM like on a 997 cup), but I do not know if there is anything in them about rear glass...

gums

I join in thanking you for this well written post. Fire is my biggest fear and I'm gonna now wear more gear, thanks to you.

I installed a lexan rear hatch this weekend and I was going to cut a few holes in it for air to escape. Sound like a bad idea now? Or is this more about the whole window?

M758

It was 15 minutues into a 1 hour day into night race. I was on track when it happend and only saw smoke in the distance after the red flag.

Tage was running in Super Unlimited. That pretty much means anything goes as far as car prep. Only safety rules apply. I am not sure what rules apply to rear glass/windows, but I am pretty sure the rules do not specify anything at least for this class

In any event this fire occuring had nothing to do with race group, time trial or DE. It was all just a mechnical failure that lead to a fire. The good point was that in DE you are not even reqiuired to run a fire suit or fire system. Despite no balaclava he did have a fire suit and fire system. Both of which bought seconds will minimize the injuries to what they were.

It is a tough situation. On the one hand you can say "It should not have happened" on the other you can say "He was lucky and did the right things".

DAVISRILEY

Lemons doesn't care, other than no side windows. Chumpcar makes you pull the rear windows.

KaiB

These honestly scary real life safety threads are important, I think perhaps more so to newbies like me.

My current new car is still in the shop undergoind more changes than I'll be able to use up in quite some time (yes, I'm making all the mistakes, but I want to and it should be a sweet little car).

Because of this thread, I'll ask the shop to install a proper fire suppression system now (something I had planned to do myself in the future).

At some point, one has to get over the fear of being labeled a poser and to tell oneself "fark it, I'm doing the right thing".

Thank you...

SRL

John, I wonder how many racers have actually ever seen a fire system discharge? For those of you who have, regardless of how big the bottle is, you think "damn, that didn't take very long to discharge".....and you're right.

Fire systems aren't meant to take the place of a corner worker with an extinguisher, and they certainly aren't meant to save the car. They're there to provide a few seconds of escape time, and even in this worst case fire scenario (pretty rare for a car to erupt so completely like that) it sounds like his system did it's job. This incident sounds eerily similar to what Charles Espenlaub went through at the Thunderhill 25 a couple of years back. His car too went up like *that*.

I'm glad he is OK, I can perfectly envision myself trapped in that situation, and having to deal with belts and window net without being able to see a thing - SCARY.

Scott Lang

Phokaioglaukos

I've owned a balaclava for 5 years. Never wore it until my first VLN race a couple of weeks ago. After reading this I'll wear it every time I'm on track.

Veloce Raptor

Thanks. While rear Lexan or glass would not have prevented the fire, it would have prevented or significantly reduced the backfire blowback which caused the majority of his injuries. Having a rear window is just common sense, if for no other reason than debris protection, just like window nets are. I am surprised that NASA would allow a car to take the green flag w/o a rear window.

disasterman

I suffered a fire at Blackhawk last year on the front straight, approximately 100mph. I activated my foam extinguisher which immediately made a differnence (according to observers, I could'nt see anything but smoke) but was disappointing in it's performance. I had made a habit of exiting my car after every session with helmet and hans on and it made a difference during my "on fire" bail out.

I upgraded to a 10 pound halon from Safecraft and changed my nozzle locations. I also added caron x underwear and always drive with my visor down.

Fire stories are good to warn the masses, Charlie Putnam's article in Grassroots helped drive my exit awareness and modified my habits. I see a lot of guys out there with the minimum required gear. When it happens to you, be prepared.

Sweeper

The fire suppression sys in my Formula Ford consists of 2 nozzles, engine bay, and cockpit. It never seems adequate.

We're mandated to where full fire suits, 3 layers Min, plus all the fire resistant gear. It still only gives a few seconds to get out.

My friend rolled his FF and landed upside down, with the roll hoop digging into the dirt so far that the main frame was flush to the grass. Fuel dumped out of the (faulty) check valve and covered him completely. Luckily, it didn't catch. I took 4 of us to flip the car so he could get out. IF there had been fire, there would be nothing we could have done for him.

Needless to say, it scared the Sh** of me and everyone in the FF field. Roll hoops save life's as long as it's on tarmac, not on soft dirt like Limerock.

Glad he's Okay