CA Festival of Speed
04-19-2011, 06:20 PM
#61
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vacuuming Cal Speedway
Posts: 7,306
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
5 Posts
Well no one can speak for James, but I've never shied away from giving my opinion 
.....
You don't need to use 5th or even 4th when braking hard there coming off the banking. You're braking so quickly that the benefit of those gears is marginal. He does however use 3rd most of the time and then 2nd at turn in.
Additionally, going down thru all the gears is easier on the synchros than going from say 6th to 2nd which I used to do. It becomes habit which helps assure you've made the proper gear selection....
.....You don't need to use 5th or even 4th when braking hard there coming off the banking. You're braking so quickly that the benefit of those gears is marginal. He does however use 3rd most of the time and then 2nd at turn in.
Additionally, going down thru all the gears is easier on the synchros than going from say 6th to 2nd which I used to do. It becomes habit which helps assure you've made the proper gear selection....
04-19-2011, 06:41 PM
#62
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I can't see why anyone would throttle blip without shifting. I think it's more likely you just can see that the shift is occurring. Even a cup car with a sequential gearbox needs a throttle blip. In the '10 and later cups, the blip can be done electronically.
I row down through the gears to save wear and to ensure I don't select the wrong gear. In the video I posted you can see me going from 6th to 3rd (and after that race I started going down to 2nd) at turn 3.
I row down through the gears to save wear and to ensure I don't select the wrong gear. In the video I posted you can see me going from 6th to 3rd (and after that race I started going down to 2nd) at turn 3.
04-19-2011, 11:00 PM
#63
A synchro is to help match rpms between shafts and smoothly engage gears. I have rebuilt a number of manual boxes in my day and I can see how rowing through gears is kinder to a gearbox. It you want to go 6 to 2nd that's fine the synchros will do itin a standard heel toe motion. However, sometimes rowing gears but not really can screwup your competition just like taping brakes but not really braking and tricks like that. Some guys just need to drive.
04-19-2011, 11:56 PM
#64
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I used to do a standard blip and down shift though every gear, never letting out the clutch untill the last gear but now, my car stops so well and I am braking much later, this isn't fast enough. What I have stated doing lately which seems to work quite well with my slow shifting 915 trans is skipping gears, usually 4th to 2nd, with a double clutch.
04-20-2011, 02:01 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
Even going through the gears without letting the clutch out helps, because when you go from one gear to another, you spin up or down the layshaft in the transmission. the syhnros take the abuse, unless you pre-spin it up by double clutching. the point here is that by rowing the gears, you allow each shift to have less rotating mass to change speed to match the drive shaft and layshafts, vs the wheel speeds.. Blipping while doing this is a good idea, as there is always a little drag on the clutch during the shifting process, which and help with the speed up of the "disconnected" components when the clutch is pushed in and engine reved during a downshift. (also kind of the reason that some folks can actually downshift with no clutch, but a blip as they pass through neutral.)
I enjoyed this clip very much, thanks for posting. Having driven the infield at Fontana it was even more fun to watch. I did have one question for all the experienced racers out there. I noticed that when the driver was in the braking/downshifting zones it appeard that he would do a quasi heel-toe shift as he rowed through the gears and then finally when he was in the proper gear would let the clutch out. When I say "quasi" I mean he was blipping the throttle and down****ing but not letting the clutch out that I could tell. I'm not sure the kind of gearbox the car had but this seems like a waste of time assuming the gearbox was a 6-speed w/syncros which it appeared to be. Why didn't he either; 1. let the clutch out in each gear or, 2. just do one shift? At first I was thinking it was to be sure not to miss a shift but then I wondered why blip the throttle during each shift...seems like each blip has the chance of decreasing braking efficiency, even if just slightly. Okay, hopefully my questions here make sense. I'm curious to hear what everyone has to say.
04-20-2011, 07:36 PM
#66
Burning Brakes
Even going through the gears without letting the clutch out helps, because when you go from one gear to another, you spin up or down the layshaft in the transmission. the syhnros take the abuse, unless you pre-spin it up by double clutching. the point here is that by rowing the gears, you allow each shift to have less rotating mass to change speed to match the drive shaft and layshafts, vs the wheel speeds.. Blipping while doing this is a good idea, as there is always a little drag on the clutch during the shifting process, which and help with the speed up of the "disconnected" components when the clutch is pushed in and engine reved during a downshift. (also kind of the reason that some folks can actually downshift with no clutch, but a blip as they pass through neutral.)
04-21-2011, 01:24 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
Yes I think you have it. interesting to see Chris Cervelli take the big jump on in the gears. I wonder if that gear box is a slightly closer ratio set up than normal, or just closer than mine. the reason I say this, is that his 2 gear jumps are so smooth, mainly because he seems to brake, in gear, and then slow to a point where the rpm is low enough, that the 2 gear downshift, isnt as abrupt. still, unless he is double clutching, which I dont think he is, he has to spin the layshaft/driveshaft via only the use of the synchros . it might not be a significant wear factor, because the gears ratios are close enough.
Thanks everyone for your responses, all that insight was useful. Mark, I think your response is the most useful for me. Let me see if I have this straight, you can do a 4-2 or 5-2 shift but you are asking more of the syncros and will likely wear them out sooner; however, if you just row down the gear box (even without letting the clutch out) you put less wear on the syncros. And, as an alternative to rowing through the gears you can do a 4-2 or 5-2 shift and double clutch it to better align the engine speed with the tranny speed once again making things easier on the syncros (like what Evan described). Does this all sound accruate?
