Hoosier R6 vs BFG R1
03-10-2011, 01:57 AM
#61
Rennlist Member
you watch what my competitors see in a race where all of us are very close. tires, even HP doesnt do it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dyYg...eature=related
this is whent he holbert car was a just gut and go race car! a bolt on suspension headers and some big used tires! not a mod to the car. no oil coolers, no rubber changed after being over 20 years old, etc. talk about bang for the buck. by the way, the cars in the race..... no costs spared. best of everything, even bolt on blowers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dyYg...eature=related
this is whent he holbert car was a just gut and go race car! a bolt on suspension headers and some big used tires!
not a mod to the car. no oil coolers, no rubber changed after being over 20 years old, etc. talk about bang for the buck. by the way, the cars in the race..... no costs spared. best of everything, even bolt on blowers!
03-10-2011, 01:59 AM
#62
Rennlist Member
I get you ! as I mentioned before, all I say applies to "classed" racing, not "spec racing" in spec racing, I still think you can make some consessions, but not many . there you have a good point!
But, we are not spec racers here. we are classed racers. there is more "slop" in the rules than a set of new tires could ever make up.
remember you said "P-cars" now you are talking about spec racers! not the same!
But, we are not spec racers here. we are classed racers. there is more "slop" in the rules than a set of new tires could ever make up.
remember you said "P-cars" now you are talking about spec racers! not the same!
*lowers forehead onto hand and exhales*
I'll say it again, if you can win by the 'Kibort approach' then you're not racing in a very competitive class. Sure you might have some good close racing, but it's not a competitive class. Do you think you can show up to a MX5 cup, Grand-Am, Spec Miata, etc race on junk tires and win? No, because those are competitive classes/series.
PS- .5 seconds/lap is a life time in a competitive class.
I'll say it again, if you can win by the 'Kibort approach' then you're not racing in a very competitive class. Sure you might have some good close racing, but it's not a competitive class. Do you think you can show up to a MX5 cup, Grand-Am, Spec Miata, etc race on junk tires and win? No, because those are competitive classes/series.
PS- .5 seconds/lap is a life time in a competitive class.
03-10-2011, 08:56 AM
#63
Rennlist Member
To be succinct, you are extremely unsafe if in fact you do run 15 year ols Konis that have never been rebuilt, ancient bushings, etc. You are unsafe to yourself, but more importantly you are putting everyone else on track at risk.
And this is anything but "grass roots" racing. This is just a wanton disregard for the most basic level of respect for those on track with you.
03-10-2011, 08:58 AM
#64
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
03-10-2011, 09:07 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
LMFAO at Hogan's Heroes...bwhahahahaha!!!
03-10-2011, 12:34 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
that is quite a fun thread for sure.
i should try to get here a friend of mine who builds up and races cars like 30 year old modded camaros, in michigan. thats where true car land is... he would say quite a bit probably what he thinks of p-car crowd in general and of what most of those people should do with their monies.
'competitive series', goodness... competitive in what way? the way who got a longest trailer? it is hobby, people just do it their own way to get some fun in their lives. if I would have a friend who can offload to me his hoosiers after 4-5 HC for peanuts I would be just happy to use them as no one checks teeth on a gift horse.
i should try to get here a friend of mine who builds up and races cars like 30 year old modded camaros, in michigan. thats where true car land is... he would say quite a bit probably what he thinks of p-car crowd in general and of what most of those people should do with their monies.
'competitive series', goodness... competitive in what way? the way who got a longest trailer? it is hobby, people just do it their own way to get some fun in their lives. if I would have a friend who can offload to me his hoosiers after 4-5 HC for peanuts I would be just happy to use them as no one checks teeth on a gift horse.
03-10-2011, 01:04 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Lets remember whatthe original topic and post was about, it's a comparison between Hoosiers R6 and BFG R1's in which the OP was comparing some 2 day old Hoosiers to his regular tire which was a BFGoodrich R1.
In my mind this was not a fair comparison, and my comments have been from my experiences with new sticker down to cord on both sets of tires and others.
In my mind this was not a fair comparison, and my comments have been from my experiences with new sticker down to cord on both sets of tires and others.
03-10-2011, 03:27 PM
#69
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The bfgs had something like 10 days on them the hoosers had 2. So fair or not who knows? Who cares. I like the Hoosers better I find them more predictable in a slide. Like everthing else a lot comes down to personal preference unless there is data to determine which are faster.
03-10-2011, 03:28 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
ha ha . yep, you got it! and of course dont forget the shop owners that also advise to not "cut corners" and buy even more stuff so they can shave off those precious .3 seconds, pay 5k for the mod and not change a position in their race event!
that is quite a fun thread for sure.
i should try to get here a friend of mine who builds up and races cars like 30 year old modded camaros, in michigan. thats where true car land is... he would say quite a bit probably what he thinks of p-car crowd in general and of what most of those people should do with their monies.
'competitive series', goodness... competitive in what way? the way who got a longest trailer? it is hobby, people just do it their own way to get some fun in their lives. if I would have a friend who can offload to me his hoosiers after 4-5 HC for peanuts I would be just happy to use them as no one checks teeth on a gift horse.
i should try to get here a friend of mine who builds up and races cars like 30 year old modded camaros, in michigan. thats where true car land is... he would say quite a bit probably what he thinks of p-car crowd in general and of what most of those people should do with their monies.
'competitive series', goodness... competitive in what way? the way who got a longest trailer? it is hobby, people just do it their own way to get some fun in their lives. if I would have a friend who can offload to me his hoosiers after 4-5 HC for peanuts I would be just happy to use them as no one checks teeth on a gift horse.
03-10-2011, 03:34 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
Ive driven both. maybe these days , the componds are different, but from what Ive seen of my competitors with new vs use, the difference isnt that great.
all i know, is that my toyo RA1s run the same times for the first 10 heat cycles and then dont lose much after. the hoosier A series tire and the R series used are better than the toyo at all times in their life cycle. the Old R3s would heat cycle out before they wore out. ugly tires for grip when they where worn. thats when I discovered toyos! Now, it seems the compouds are different. the BFGs, Kumos V700s, goodyear R1s, Hankooks all have some pretty decent grip but slightly different characteristics as they wear and heat cycle. The A series wear so fast, that they dont heat cycle out, but they are very sticky to the cords of their 8-12 heat cycle life. to the end, they are better than the toyo RA1s for example.
are new tires better than old? sure they are. is it worth $1500 a set vs $200 per set or even free if you are lucky and have friends like mine? no way. Not unless you are racing in spec miata as mentioned
all i know, is that my toyo RA1s run the same times for the first 10 heat cycles and then dont lose much after. the hoosier A series tire and the R series used are better than the toyo at all times in their life cycle. the Old R3s would heat cycle out before they wore out. ugly tires for grip when they where worn. thats when I discovered toyos!
Now, it seems the compouds are different. the BFGs, Kumos V700s, goodyear R1s, Hankooks all have some pretty decent grip but slightly different characteristics as they wear and heat cycle. The A series wear so fast, that they dont heat cycle out, but they are very sticky to the cords of their 8-12 heat cycle life. to the end, they are better than the toyo RA1s for example.are new tires better than old? sure they are. is it worth $1500 a set vs $200 per set or even free if you are lucky and have friends like mine? no way. Not unless you are racing in spec miata as mentioned
Lets remember whatthe original topic and post was about, it's a comparison between Hoosiers R6 and BFG R1's in which the OP was comparing some 2 day old Hoosiers to his regular tire which was a BFGoodrich R1.
In my mind this was not a fair comparison, and my comments have been from my experiences with new sticker down to cord on both sets of tires and others.
In my mind this was not a fair comparison, and my comments have been from my experiences with new sticker down to cord on both sets of tires and others.
03-10-2011, 03:45 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
Dave, you get the triple face palm for this one!
You dont even know the difference between HP and torque and not you are trying to educate me on safety? OH brother!
My car is one of the safest ones on the race track on any given day. I think my safety record racing stands on its own. why is it I have hours of videos of guys spining off track around me. Im the unsafe one? Really?
Ive seen and recorded more chassis, engine tire, brake, wheel, suspension and driver failures than I can even count on other cars out there. all of which have put the entire field at risk. We certify our cars with SCCA or PCA, etc. they check for the gross saftey issues. after that, we are responsible, using our knowlege of building a race car, to be safe. Some know NOTHING , some know a lot. everyone makes decisions to change or run the parts on what they have on the car.
Dave, have you EVER seen a catostrophic shock failure? is it even possible?
yes, those shocks are 15 years old. they are dampers. the damp chassis oscolations to control the effects of spring rates and natural frequencies of the spring mass system. you have NO idea what you are talkiing about because you barely know what they do!
In fact, I have so much friction with my stock 25 year old rubber bushings, I dont even need shocks to be safe!
I think a guy like you that has been pointed backward facing traffic in a race or in the sand traps for some other failure you blamed the car for, should not be throwing stones about being UNSAFE.
You dont even know the difference between HP and torque and not you are trying to educate me on safety? OH brother!
My car is one of the safest ones on the race track on any given day. I think my safety record racing stands on its own. why is it I have hours of videos of guys spining off track around me. Im the unsafe one? Really?
Ive seen and recorded more chassis, engine tire, brake, wheel, suspension and driver failures than I can even count on other cars out there. all of which have put the entire field at risk. We certify our cars with SCCA or PCA, etc. they check for the gross saftey issues. after that, we are responsible, using our knowlege of building a race car, to be safe. Some know NOTHING , some know a lot. everyone makes decisions to change or run the parts on what they have on the car.
Dave, have you EVER seen a catostrophic shock failure? is it even possible?
yes, those shocks are 15 years old. they are dampers. the damp chassis oscolations to control the effects of spring rates and natural frequencies of the spring mass system. you have NO idea what you are talkiing about because you barely know what they do!
In fact, I have so much friction with my stock 25 year old rubber bushings, I dont even need shocks to be safe!
I think a guy like you that has been pointed backward facing traffic in a race or in the sand traps for some other failure you blamed the car for, should not be throwing stones about being UNSAFE.
Mark, I will let others continue to dissect your other comments in this thread...but this one above stands out as 2 layers of BS in one.
To be succinct, you are extremely unsafe if in fact you do run 15 year ols Konis that have never been rebuilt, ancient bushings, etc. You are unsafe to yourself, but more importantly you are putting everyone else on track at risk.
And this is anything but "grass roots" racing. This is just a wanton disregard for the most basic level of respect for those on track with you.
To be succinct, you are extremely unsafe if in fact you do run 15 year ols Konis that have never been rebuilt, ancient bushings, etc. You are unsafe to yourself, but more importantly you are putting everyone else on track at risk.
And this is anything but "grass roots" racing. This is just a wanton disregard for the most basic level of respect for those on track with you.
03-10-2011, 06:22 PM
#73
Race Director
Thread Starter
Lets remember whatthe original topic and post was about, it's a comparison between Hoosiers R6 and BFG R1's in which the OP was comparing some 2 day old Hoosiers to his regular tire which was a BFGoodrich R1.
In my mind this was not a fair comparison, and my comments have been from my experiences with new sticker down to cord on both sets of tires and others.
In my mind this was not a fair comparison, and my comments have been from my experiences with new sticker down to cord on both sets of tires and others.
The hoosiers were two DE days old...still with plenty of tread on them.....I set my personal best lap on the hoosiers in my 1st session on them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJa4ZsXMrYI
Here is my previous best lap on the R1's at about 10-15 heat cycles only .04 slower..so only a few cycles more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbQag-koseQ
while I do think the R1's last longer & have similar peak grip....I just find the hoosiers much easier to control at the limit.....the R1's don't like high slip angles, they just break away and are hard to catch.....with that said, I don't know if I can afford to continue my 50 hours of track time a year on Hoosiers.... :>(
03-10-2011, 07:45 PM
#74
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Dave, you get the triple face palm for this one!
You dont even know the difference between HP and torque and not you are trying to educate me on safety? OH brother!
My car is one of the safest ones on the race track on any given day. I think my safety record racing stands on its own. why is it I have hours of videos of guys spining off track around me. Im the unsafe one? Really?
Ive seen and recorded more chassis, engine tire, brake, wheel, suspension and driver failures than I can even count on other cars out there. all of which have put the entire field at risk. We certify our cars with SCCA or PCA, etc. they check for the gross saftey issues. after that, we are responsible, using our knowlege of building a race car, to be safe. Some know NOTHING , some know a lot. everyone makes decisions to change or run the parts on what they have on the car.
Dave, have you EVER seen a catostrophic shock failure? is it even possible?
yes, those shocks are 15 years old. they are dampers. the damp chassis oscolations to control the effects of spring rates and natural frequencies of the spring mass system. you have NO idea what you are talkiing about because you barely know what they do!
In fact, I have so much friction with my stock 25 year old rubber bushings, I dont even need shocks to be safe!
I think a guy like you that has been pointed backward facing traffic in a race or in the sand traps for some other failure you blamed the car for, should not be throwing stones about being UNSAFE.
You dont even know the difference between HP and torque and not you are trying to educate me on safety? OH brother!
My car is one of the safest ones on the race track on any given day. I think my safety record racing stands on its own. why is it I have hours of videos of guys spining off track around me. Im the unsafe one? Really?
Ive seen and recorded more chassis, engine tire, brake, wheel, suspension and driver failures than I can even count on other cars out there. all of which have put the entire field at risk. We certify our cars with SCCA or PCA, etc. they check for the gross saftey issues. after that, we are responsible, using our knowlege of building a race car, to be safe. Some know NOTHING , some know a lot. everyone makes decisions to change or run the parts on what they have on the car.
Dave, have you EVER seen a catostrophic shock failure? is it even possible?
yes, those shocks are 15 years old. they are dampers. the damp chassis oscolations to control the effects of spring rates and natural frequencies of the spring mass system. you have NO idea what you are talkiing about because you barely know what they do!
In fact, I have so much friction with my stock 25 year old rubber bushings, I dont even need shocks to be safe!
I think a guy like you that has been pointed backward facing traffic in a race or in the sand traps for some other failure you blamed the car for, should not be throwing stones about being UNSAFE.
03-10-2011, 08:05 PM
#75
Rennlist Member