Tire life
02-28-2011, 04:49 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
why do you have .2 degree camber diff on a mostly street car? just curious if it was a rational choice as it is not very typical, and also curious how it was possible to get -3 deg in rear with stock rear suspension. what is toe set to there at such camber? in understand you have a boxster but imho its rear axle was pretty similar to 996 which is almost same as 997 so probably same rules apply.
02-28-2011, 04:53 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
"Track Guru"? well, thats the problem, its always the problem. 
where did the tire cord out? inside or outside edge and what side of the car?
sounds like it probably is the outside edge and this is an aligment issue. (or set up issue with the fact that you are maxed out at 1.2degrees)
Next, never use hoosiers again for DE. why?? Toyos and others are bullet proof and run near just as fast and can be just as "intoxicating". we are talking maybe 1 second slower in best case. many guys have ripped off same times with toyos and had been very surprised in doing so. they are a more "slidey" tire, but have a lot of grip.
I have a heavy car, beat the snot out of A series hoosiers and I get more than 4 weekends out of them, 5 for the rears, and they are skinned evenly across the face of the tire.
when tires wear out, (prematurely and unevenly) its alignment
where did the tire cord out? inside or outside edge and what side of the car?
sounds like it probably is the outside edge and this is an aligment issue. (or set up issue with the fact that you are maxed out at 1.2degrees)
Next, never use hoosiers again for DE. why?? Toyos and others are bullet proof and run near just as fast and can be just as "intoxicating". we are talking maybe 1 second slower in best case. many guys have ripped off same times with toyos and had been very surprised in doing so. they are a more "slidey" tire, but have a lot of grip.
I have a heavy car, beat the snot out of A series hoosiers and I get more than 4 weekends out of them, 5 for the rears, and they are skinned evenly across the face of the tire.
when tires wear out, (prematurely and unevenly) its alignment
02-28-2011, 05:07 PM
#18
The TPC kit won't help much. It's lowering springs plus sway bars. You already have the PSS9 so no need for lowering springs. Adjustable sway bars are nice but won't solve your tire problem. You need GT3 lower control arms or camber plates. I track a Cayman using Michelin Pilot Sport Cups and am currently running -2.7 camber in the front.
02-28-2011, 05:25 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
The TPC kit won't help much. It's lowering springs plus sway bars. You already have the PSS9 so no need for lowering springs. Adjustable sway bars are nice but won't solve your tire problem. You need GT3 lower control arms or camber plates. I track a Cayman using Michelin Pilot Sport Cups and am currently running -2.7 camber in the front.
if i would be doing my boxster build from a scratch i would simply read spec boxster rules and followed them and did a typical spec setup for beginning.
02-28-2011, 06:36 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Mark, I suspect it is a combination of things: lack of enough front camber, very thin carcass tires (one day, lift an R6 and then a street tire of the exact same size...you'll be amazed at the difference), and perhaps a driving style that rotates the car with the front tires (rather than using the front tires merely to change direction & the rears to steer the car). Add to all of this the fact that Sebring is not exactly benign on tires...
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 02-28-2011 at 11:45 PM.
02-28-2011, 07:19 PM
#21
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Mark, I suspect it is a combination of things: lack of enough front camber, very thin carcass tires (one day, lift an R6 and then a street tire of the exact same size...you'll be amazed at the difference), and perhaps a driving style that rotates the car with the front tires (rather than using the front tires merely to change direction & the rears to steer the car). Add to all of this the fact that Sebring is not exactly benign on tires...
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
02-28-2011, 07:27 PM
#22
Instructor
I was glad to see you already registered for the April event…
My wife tracks her Boxster and was having the same issues with cording the shoulders. When we chatted at the last event, moving the tires from left to right helps equalize the amount of wear from all the right handers, but the small amount of negative camber with your current setup is most likely the contributing factor to the accelerated wear…
We recently put on a set of camber plates (along with KW v3 and H&R sways) and it is not only like a different car to her, but also has eliminated the wear issues on the outside edge of the tires. Wes was able to get me all the parts at the best prices and Sid from Troysport in Orlando did the install, which included lowering, corner balance and alignment. Sid’s work is top notch and he is very reasonably priced.
Feel free to email me (Joshua@upmentors.com) and I can get an email thread with Wes going if you are interested…
By the way, I have some in-car video from the past event, I can edit the footage with your car in it if you would like to see your car from the outside
.
Joshua
My wife tracks her Boxster and was having the same issues with cording the shoulders. When we chatted at the last event, moving the tires from left to right helps equalize the amount of wear from all the right handers, but the small amount of negative camber with your current setup is most likely the contributing factor to the accelerated wear…
We recently put on a set of camber plates (along with KW v3 and H&R sways) and it is not only like a different car to her, but also has eliminated the wear issues on the outside edge of the tires. Wes was able to get me all the parts at the best prices and Sid from Troysport in Orlando did the install, which included lowering, corner balance and alignment. Sid’s work is top notch and he is very reasonably priced.
Feel free to email me (Joshua@upmentors.com) and I can get an email thread with Wes going if you are interested…
By the way, I have some in-car video from the past event, I can edit the footage with your car in it if you would like to see your car from the outside
.Joshua
02-28-2011, 07:34 PM
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
why do you have .2 degree camber diff on a mostly street car? just curious if it was a rational choice as it is not very typical, and also curious how it was possible to get -3 deg in rear with stock rear suspension. what is toe set to there at such camber? in understand you have a boxster but imho its rear axle was pretty similar to 996 which is almost same as 997 so probably same rules apply.
As with most other things mechanical I'm a dummy so I can't answer any "why" questions. The toe on the rear is set at .03 on both sides. Toe on the left is at -.02 and -.03.
02-28-2011, 07:37 PM
#24
Addict
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Thread Starter
"Track Guru"? well, thats the problem, its always the problem.
Well some other RL'ers can vouch for Jim at Porsche of Orlando. He has a pretty stellar reputation in town.
where did the tire cord out? inside or outside edge and what side of the car?
Outside
sounds like it probably is the outside edge and this is an aligment issue. (or set up issue with the fact that you are maxed out at 1.2degrees)
Next, never use hoosiers again for DE. why?? Toyos and others are bullet proof and run near just as fast and can be just as "intoxicating". we are talking maybe 1 second slower in best case. many guys have ripped off same times with toyos and had been very surprised in doing so. they are a more "slidey" tire, but have a lot of grip.
Ok, well that sounds like a plan. I can save the money to go find a Urkanian gf
I have a heavy car, beat the snot out of A series hoosiers and I get more than 4 weekends out of them, 5 for the rears, and they are skinned evenly across the face of the tire.
when tires wear out, (prematurely and unevenly) its alignment
Well some other RL'ers can vouch for Jim at Porsche of Orlando. He has a pretty stellar reputation in town.
where did the tire cord out? inside or outside edge and what side of the car?
Outside
sounds like it probably is the outside edge and this is an aligment issue. (or set up issue with the fact that you are maxed out at 1.2degrees)
Next, never use hoosiers again for DE. why?? Toyos and others are bullet proof and run near just as fast and can be just as "intoxicating". we are talking maybe 1 second slower in best case. many guys have ripped off same times with toyos and had been very surprised in doing so. they are a more "slidey" tire, but have a lot of grip.
Ok, well that sounds like a plan. I can save the money to go find a Urkanian gf
I have a heavy car, beat the snot out of A series hoosiers and I get more than 4 weekends out of them, 5 for the rears, and they are skinned evenly across the face of the tire.
when tires wear out, (prematurely and unevenly) its alignment
02-28-2011, 07:38 PM
#25
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The TPC kit won't help much. It's lowering springs plus sway bars. You already have the PSS9 so no need for lowering springs. Adjustable sway bars are nice but won't solve your tire problem. You need GT3 lower control arms or camber plates. I track a Cayman using Michelin Pilot Sport Cups and am currently running -2.7 camber in the front.
02-28-2011, 07:43 PM
#26
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Mark, I suspect it is a combination of things: lack of enough front camber, very thin carcass tires (one day, lift an R6 and then a street tire of the exact same size...you'll be amazed at the difference), and perhaps a driving style that rotates the car with the front tires (rather than using the front tires merely to change direction & the rears to steer the car). Add to all of this the fact that Sebring is not exactly benign on tires...
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Chris Hall has me turning in earlier than I had been previously at 7 & 10. As I get on the gas, the car tends to rotate a bit and in 10 slides a bit on trackout. I'm thinking that's part of my problem.
02-28-2011, 07:47 PM
#27
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I was glad to see you already registered for the April event…
My wife tracks her Boxster and was having the same issues with cording the shoulders. When we chatted at the last event, moving the tires from left to right helps equalize the amount of wear from all the right handers, but the small amount of negative camber with your current setup is most likely the contributing factor to the accelerated wear…
We recently put on a set of camber plates (along with KW v3 and H&R sways) and it is not only like a different car to her, but also has eliminated the wear issues on the outside edge of the tires. Wes was able to get me all the parts at the best prices and Sid from Troysport in Orlando did the install, which included lowering, corner balance and alignment. Sid’s work is top notch and he is very reasonably priced.
Feel free to email me (Joshua@upmentors.com) and I can get an email thread with Wes going if you are interested…
By the way, I have some in-car video from the past event, I can edit the footage with your car in it if you would like to see your car from the outside.
Joshua
My wife tracks her Boxster and was having the same issues with cording the shoulders. When we chatted at the last event, moving the tires from left to right helps equalize the amount of wear from all the right handers, but the small amount of negative camber with your current setup is most likely the contributing factor to the accelerated wear…
We recently put on a set of camber plates (along with KW v3 and H&R sways) and it is not only like a different car to her, but also has eliminated the wear issues on the outside edge of the tires. Wes was able to get me all the parts at the best prices and Sid from Troysport in Orlando did the install, which included lowering, corner balance and alignment. Sid’s work is top notch and he is very reasonably priced.
Feel free to email me (Joshua@upmentors.com) and I can get an email thread with Wes going if you are interested…
By the way, I have some in-car video from the past event, I can edit the footage with your car in it if you would like to see your car from the outside
.Joshua
Hi Joshua,
I sent you a message to the above email address. I'd like to pursue your suggestions. It was nice meeting you at Roebling. You can really pedal that Supra!
02-28-2011, 11:42 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
sure, some tracks are harder than others, but if you dont have the right aligment for your car, you can cord any DOT race tire. the heat is just tremendous, and its like a shaving machine. it cords on the outside edge because almost all your contact is on that edge. probably like driving on a bicycle tire! (as far as contact patch efficiency) no comparison to the wear patterns to a properly set up car.
I constantly see chewed up tires at the changer at the track from improperly set up cars. One of the things that not too many folks consider, is that with a street sport supsension, you get a lot of body roll too. that means even though the compressed tire is increasing camber, it doesnt increase to the angle that the car is rolling over. this problem tends to be less with a higher spring rate set up. (or stiffer roll bars)
This set up guy in town maybe good, but if he doesnt take ALL things into account, the aligment can as easliy be wrong as it can be right. If he didnt look at your car, check out the spring rates, ask you what level driver you are, then his alignment settings being right would be a crap shoot. If he said that you only can go to 1 degree and you are going to burn up your outside edge due to your set up, then he is someone I would trust. If not, you paid for someone to slaughter your $1500 set of tires!
I get my A series hoosiers used from folks that know what they are doing. these are 2:12 type cars on DOTs at Sebring . why is it that i can take their used tires and make them my primary race sets for 3 additional weekends? the cars are set up well that they are running on. its that simple. I do see accelerated wear at tracks like Laguna, but the wear is even and when I trash the tire, its bald and just starting to cord somewhere.
I constantly see chewed up tires at the changer at the track from improperly set up cars. One of the things that not too many folks consider, is that with a street sport supsension, you get a lot of body roll too. that means even though the compressed tire is increasing camber, it doesnt increase to the angle that the car is rolling over. this problem tends to be less with a higher spring rate set up. (or stiffer roll bars)
This set up guy in town maybe good, but if he doesnt take ALL things into account, the aligment can as easliy be wrong as it can be right. If he didnt look at your car, check out the spring rates, ask you what level driver you are, then his alignment settings being right would be a crap shoot. If he said that you only can go to 1 degree and you are going to burn up your outside edge due to your set up, then he is someone I would trust. If not, you paid for someone to slaughter your $1500 set of tires!
I get my A series hoosiers used from folks that know what they are doing. these are 2:12 type cars on DOTs at Sebring . why is it that i can take their used tires and make them my primary race sets for 3 additional weekends? the cars are set up well that they are running on. its that simple. I do see accelerated wear at tracks like Laguna, but the wear is even and when I trash the tire, its bald and just starting to cord somewhere.
