Accelerator

I'm probably comiing from a different perspective than most. For several seasons I've had a high HP/Tq 996 turbo that I've tracked quite a bit. I ran racing slicks for a couple of seasons and had some clearance problems on drivers side with a large turbo. Also may've had some downforce issues due to a cup wing and a large splitter on the front. I said all that to say this: To date, I've had 4 tire separations with 2 of them at close to 175 MPH. If I hadn't been running with PSM on, I suspect I would wadded it up on at least 2 occasions.

I agree that I could've turned off PSM and pushed for, and gotten, some better lap times but my driving goals don't include fastest time possible and best driver I can possibly be. At my age it's mostly a fun issue and the joy of watching a student develop skills in achieving his/her goals. Fo me, it has been and will continue to be PSM all the time.

Never did get a definitive answer as to why I had all the separations but it doesn't matter now as the car is essentially back to stock now and I drive to and from Road Atlanta on street tires.

As an aside, the guy who bought my wing and splitters has experienced some separations also and his turbo clearance is probably not an issue as they are much smaller than the ones I used to have.

Crazy Canuck

some people don't want to listen either. They just wanna go fast.

flyingpenguin

Do you remember which color GTR?

Just out of personal curiosity; there may be a correlation to be found here.
;-)

JP

TR6

No, I don't remember.

Adrienne

I'm in the "off" camp. I would not want to see someone use it as a crutch. Plus if you drive with it on, when would you turn it off? That would be a scary moment, as you would not have built the car control skills to save your a$$ and you are then going much faster than when you started DE'ing. Perhaps it's a matter of confidence in knowing your skills. I suppose if you think it would help you build confidence, then maybe that will answer your question.

For me, I absolutely turn it off! I love scary fun! I'd pull the PSM system out of the car if I could.

himself

I'm not one to tell anybody to turn TC off, but there is some tension between driving the car fast and actually learning to DRIVE the car - especially learning to contol "sticky situations." The crutch is nice, but it inherently is the limiting factor in driver skill level. An what happens when the driver runs out of talent/ and the computer runs out of programming?

This is not a one-size-fits-all issue. And perhaps TC has opened our sport to many that would have had serious issues driving fast 10+ years ago.

All this leads to the question: should anyone be in the top run group (or instructor crew) if they only drive with TC on?

mglobe

A few of things folks in the no-PSM camp need to consider:

New drivers are showing up in vehicles that are FAST. Much faster than the cars of years gone by. A large number of our new students are driving their dream-mobile that is their first entry into true performance. They have spent a fortune on their shiny new 997, Cayman, Boxster, GTR, Z06,...

There's no reason to get on a high horse about them starting with too fast of a car. They bought the car for whatever personal reason they have, and they come to us (instructors) to learn how to drive, and to have FUN. If they go home with their 997TT wadded up, they've had no fun, and they won't come back. PSM gives them a chance to come out and enjoy their car with an increased safety margin.

Later, as they have acclimated to the track, learned to drive the line, learned to look ahead, how to brake, modulate the throttle,... then they can start thinking about turning off PSM and carefully working on advanced car control skills.

Adrienne

So let's ponder this quote from Mario Andretti then:
"If everything seems under control, you are not going fast enough"

WWMD?

(let me qualify this...I'm a very, very bad influence.)

Streak

This ^^

If the TC is continually correcting the attitude of the car then the driver is not learning anything about car control.

When a driver is on track he/she should be making the steering corrections, brake and throttle inputs and keeping the chassis weighted appropriately for where they are on the track. If a computer is catching instances when the driver failed to countersteer or overcooked it into a turn and corrected the attitude of the car with the driver making no reaction at all that's a big problem.

IIRC there is a thread going right now where the use of paddle shifters in the new RSR is being lamented. The argument is that race car drivers should have the old skills and driver involvement is demanded. Any baffoon can buy an RSR with paddle shifters and go racing.

This is no different.

I'm not advocating jumping in the right seat and turning it off but a serious discussion should be had with someone who is reluctant to go with out it. At the green and blue level the instructor should be able to exert enough control over the student to keep him or her out of trouble. Let's face it, the green group looks like a funeral procession. Accidents do happen of course. They even happen with TC on.

Veloce Raptor

WWMD? He would not have gotten into the car to be asked the question in the first place.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Steamboat

Thanks for everyone's input. I had no idea this topic would engender such diversity of opinion but after digesting the arguments, it's easier to understand how reasonable people can have differing perspectives. Onward......best,

kurt M

^ that^ and "If you have to ask others you are not ready"

kurt M

What is a crutch and what is an advancement?