Crazy Canuck

+1

utkinpol

i do not completely disagree, but several recent discussions here were even worse and how VR responded there and what he says here seems to be pretty typical for him apparently so i remain at my opinion. it is his business how to behave and it is my business how to comment on it - it is a public forum after all. and my opinion is that any question deserves a normal calm response no matter how right or wrong original question could have been.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamboat
For those cars equipped with Porsche Stability Management system, what is the consensus about running a DE with it left on or turned off?

VR: Yes.
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to me it sounds simply disrespectful and I am saying this as it is.

Veloce Raptor

With all due respect, you are delusional. I gave a clear, calm response that was apparently lost on you. As the Captain said in Cool Hand Luke: "Some men you just can't reach".








Professional Racing and Driving Coach

CWhaley

"What we have here is a failure to communicate!" Cool hand Luke

himself

I respectfully object to this comment and what it implies about VR. He is very forthcoming with information, but he is cognizant of where saying something vs showing you something is a lost cause. On this particular topic, there is some liability to telling your student to turn traction control off. Like many others, I don't suggest one way or another.

-td

Larry Herman

Fixed it for ya.

Most people misquote it.

himself

IMO (for most students) that little light intrudes into proper driving just as much as indicating mistakes. You can't learn to drive on slip when the car won't let you. I've seen many instances of traction control causing terrible understeer resulting in various problems including two wheels off as well as teaching the student that they've reached the limit when they are nowhere near it.

-td

CWhaley

Sorry Larry I do not speak Southern Hillbilly...

Larry Herman

Neither do I, but I know when I want a Budweiser in a redneck bar to ask for a "bear".

utkinpol

i can only speak from my own experience - first couple AX days without PSM were not working for me at all as I simply got used to rely on car correcting me and it took quite some time to get a sense of it. and during this time i did spin a lot. i cannot imagine any of that possible to be practiced on a track.

it is a tough subject - any p-car got a button with word 'PSM' on it, and instructors usually feel like they prefer to avoid this whole topic and it is quite understandable why. problem with that is - what people who do not really know anything about it yet are supposed to do as they progress with minimal risk to wreck their car.

Mark Dreyer

My student last time was this gal in a Volvo sedan. It was only her 3rd time out to Sebring and she was doing remarkably well. Her first session out she got passes from a Ferrari, a Porsche 911TT and an M3. I'm sure those boys won't be telling too many people about that.

In any case, she was an astute enough student to perceive the stability control kicking in through some of the turns, slowing her down, even when put into "sport mode".

She emailed me the other day to tell me she'd gotten some Advan Neovo tires, and had figured out how to totally defeat the traction control. She is requesting me as an instructor again at the event next month. Should be interesting. I think she'll be ready for solo.

bobt993

There are a couple of ways PSM intrudes on your driving, but the reasons are very different. First (#1) is important and the system basically says " Your not taking the corner properly and you need to slow down if your going to try it this way". The next scenario is rarely introduced: " (#2)Your car setup and grip levels exceed my system parameters therefore I need to make some corrections and slow the car down within my program limits". Most drivers think scenario #2 is present when in fact it is #1.

When the driver skill level gets high enough he or she can drive the car to very limit of the PSM system and understand Exactly why and where the system limits are exceeded. If you don't know when and why the PSM has kicked in 100% of the time then you have answered the question as to whether you should rely on the safety of PSM.

Veloce Raptor

EXACTLY! Thank you.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

TR6

Funny story I witnessed last year. Running in the most advanced non-instructor run group in my spec miata at TWS (CCW), I was behind a Nissan GTR. He would pull away dramatically on the straights and I'd reel him back in in the twisties. I was behind him from T3 through T6 and right at the apex of T6, he loses it big. I mean there was a cloud of dirt and rocks and small rodents flying as he spun through the apex and off the track. I walked up to him in the paddock after the session to ask him if he wanted to see video of it. He told me the stability management computer "malfunctioned". Translation: Because he didn't understand what the car's limits really were, he finally pushed the laws of physics to the point where even the GTR supercomputer threw it's electronic hands up in the air and said 'screw you boy, you're on your own'.

Larry Herman