Steamboat

For those cars equipped with Porsche Stability Management system, what is the consensus about running a DE with it left on or turned off? If turned off, when in a driver's learning progression is that recommended and what perceptible differences might the driver expect to encounter? I understand that some systems such as ABS are never completely disabled and will continue to intervene albeit at higher threshold levels than normal. Thanks for any insights,

mglobe

You will no doubt get a range of answers. My personal opinion is that for beginner and intermediate drivers, leave it on until you can drive without it interacting AND you have developed sufficient skills to keep the car under contol. In the late model cars (997, 987) it's pretty unobtrusive, and will allow you some latitude while you are learning. I tracked my 997S all the way up to the most advanced run group with PSM on, and still managed to learn a fair amount.

Someone will say turn it off in 5... 4... 3... 2...

cello

^ 1.

But only when you are truly ready for R compounds.

And then initially only in certain sessions where you 'know' you have it off. Work up to off all the time.

Really, its not a big deal unless you do not have good car control or feel ..

CWhaley

Follow Mike's suggestions... Learn to drive the car at its limits with the PSM turned on. It will teach you control the car with smooth inputs from Braking, turn in, pitch & yaw (car balance). Sure you will have corners (as your skill increases) it will just want too "come on"... but it develops a knowledge of how your "line" combined with inputs is in direct relationship to balance.

cello

IMHO "It" wont teach you anything by itself. "It" will just intervene and save YA. If you do not have some semblance of awareness or 'car control' or 'feel', you will completely miss its implementation and just be happy nothing awful happened back there, etc., while your fully consumed attention is focused forward..

You are right, of course, in your ultimate conclusion, as is MG; but, that said, PSM does not 'teach' and it would take a special student to understand its instruction if it did .. and to understand the lesson, that student would likely have had enough experience and feel not to have needed the lesson in the first instance, IHMO..

CWhaley

It will teach you if you use it as a tool! Especially if his instructor takes advantage of this during their time together.

Streak

Turn it off. Many generations before have learned to drive without it. Nearly a hundred years we survived without it.

I had a student once who had psm during a rainy track day. It saved him at every corner. He had no clue, he used it as a crutch. I told him "one day you will push the car past what the traction control can correct."

I am not making this up, on the way home from the track that afternoon, in the rain, he was being pulled out of a ditch having exceeded the limits of his PSM equipped 996 cab.

Learn to drive without it.

Having said that, as an instructor I would never turn it off in your car or insist you disable it if you are really uncomfortable.

cello

C Whaley: OK, understand your point.

PSM will show the Instructor for sure. The student, not so much. That 'all engaged' attention thing...

For me, I watched for it but never engaged it. So I shut it down. No problems since. This was after a bunch of days in and after R compounds. But I tend to be conservative and incremental.

Veloce Raptor

Yes.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

CWhaley

VR... nothing like getting to the point...

jscott82

Count me in the "leave it on" camp for new/intermediate students..... No sense spinning or otherwise out of control situation when you can simply say "did you feel the car save you"... if the answer is no, then we have alot of work to do, if yes then we are getting somewhere...

For advanced students, I'm on the fence...

cello

^ Not sure the OP is asking the question from the Instructors' perspective. I assumed he means as an advanced driver able to make his own call. Could be wrong, tho... Chime in/clarify OP. If Instructing, one would always want it on, no question/common sense.

BTW your car is BEAUTIFUL!!!

jscott82

<Gilda Radner voice - on> nevermind <Gilda Radner voice - off>

VaSteve

I had a student over the summer that had it in his 987S. It was like his third event (first in that car) and I am relatively new to instructing. I was amazed at how much I learned from it (I have an older car). He couldn't feel it, but I could then teach him what it felt like when it came on...which it did a good bit at first.

If you are an "advanced" driver, you should be able to decide on your own whether you need it or not. If you're really ripping it up in the advanced group and have PSM or whatever on, are you really truly driving?

My brother works for a manufacturer of fine European cars. I got to drive one out on the street and I was cooking through my usual test loop. The car was so easy to drive compared to my own, that I didn't realize how much faster I must have been going until I felt that kick in. If I was just a "consumer" as opposed to a "certified driver" I wonder if I would have noticed. I actually scared me pretty good, since I couldn't afford to replace the vehicle I was driving.

Larry Herman

How many times does this subject come around? Here's a novel approach, ask the student how fast their rear brake pads wear out. If it is about as much as the front, they are not ready. If they never wear, then turn it off.