View Poll Results: Where do you shift your 996 3.6L street engine'd racer
shift at redline to maximize HP and acceleration on any straight
13
36.11%
shift at 300rpm below redline to save then engine and its "noise" anyway.
11
30.56%
I dont know, but want to learn how to maximize acceleration on any straight on the track.
1
2.78%
I dont know and dont care. Ill just do whatever VR says I should do.
11
30.56%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll
996 3.6L street engine race car owners. Where do you shift?
02-09-2011, 05:49 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Is it wrong to want to lose 20 to 40hp by shifting early? If that is wrong, I dont want to be right! 
now we have the actual data on a spreadsheet to make the point crystal clear.
Certainly on the street, or when in the lead in a race, it might be a good idea to save the equipment. But when going for best laps, you need to take advantage of all your potential. Performance 101 here.
now we have the actual data on a spreadsheet to make the point crystal clear.
Certainly on the street, or when in the lead in a race, it might be a good idea to save the equipment. But when going for best laps, you need to take advantage of all your potential. Performance 101 here.
02-09-2011, 06:11 PM
#32
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Apparently to some people. 
Clearly slowpokes like you, PedroNole, Viking, mglobe, me, etc etc etc could not POSSIBLY know anything, despite our real-world data & experience, when confronted by the theoretical world of a classroom instructor.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Clearly slowpokes like you, PedroNole, Viking, mglobe, me, etc etc etc could not POSSIBLY know anything, despite our real-world data & experience, when confronted by the theoretical world of a classroom instructor.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
02-09-2011, 06:23 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So, you are clearly disputing the data presented in a clear and consise fashion.
what real world data? Have we seen any of, other than a contrary to phyics sesation in your behind? This "noise" you speak of is a valuable resource to anyone trying to run a faster lap time. Just because YOU didnt see it in the hours of seat time, under racing conditions. :roflamo:, doesnt mean its not there. How about this. maybe YOU couldnt handle the extra power. You couldnt then, "bend" the car into the oncoming turn and you ended up slower. BUT, if you could, you would. Just something to think about.
If you are coaching with this logic and mindset, you are not doing anyone any favors.
You want to get faster, you need to use all your available HP. its not "noise" up top, as the chart and HP curves CLEARLY show.
Why dont you vist me in my theoretical world of the classroom at High Plains Raceway, so you can put your "Data" to the test!
what real world data? Have we seen any of, other than a contrary to phyics sesation in your behind? This "noise" you speak of is a valuable resource to anyone trying to run a faster lap time. Just because YOU didnt see it in the hours of seat time, under racing conditions. :roflamo:, doesnt mean its not there. How about this. maybe YOU couldnt handle the extra power. You couldnt then, "bend" the car into the oncoming turn and you ended up slower. BUT, if you could, you would. Just something to think about.
If you are coaching with this logic and mindset, you are not doing anyone any favors.
You want to get faster, you need to use all your available HP. its not "noise" up top, as the chart and HP curves CLEARLY show.
Why dont you vist me in my theoretical world of the classroom at High Plains Raceway, so you can put your "Data" to the test!
Apparently to some people.
Clearly slowpokes like you, PedroNole, Viking, mglobe, me, etc etc etc could not POSSIBLY know anything, despite our real-world data & experience, when confronted by the theoretical world of a classroom instructor.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Clearly slowpokes like you, PedroNole, Viking, mglobe, me, etc etc etc could not POSSIBLY know anything, despite our real-world data & experience, when confronted by the theoretical world of a classroom instructor.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
02-09-2011, 06:27 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
"Luke, sense your feelings, use the force, read the torque chart! It will serve you well. dont circum to the darkside of "feelings" . those are for L. Richie songs ONLY..........." da da da, Nothing more than feelings, feelings of.........."
mk
mk
02-09-2011, 06:33 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
02-09-2011, 06:46 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
02-09-2011, 06:47 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Here you go. At 7000RPM you have to make the decision as to rev up or shift. These options are highlighted in bold.
Edit- I did whip this up quick, so the units are meaningless without final drive etc. Also, the precision of the dyno numbers leaves something to be desired
An alternative way of doing it is to calculate Work with W=Pt and ignore the wheel torques but you still need to know the shift points.
Edit- I did whip this up quick, so the units are meaningless without final drive etc. Also, the precision of the dyno numbers leaves something to be desired
An alternative way of doing it is to calculate Work with W=Pt and ignore the wheel torques but you still need to know the shift points.
So wait....this chart seems to show that--GASP!--you don't really need to upshift at redline with this motor. But...but...but...how could that be? 42,000 defensive words of protest in 2 separate threads seem to indicate it is impossible! Zut alors!!!
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
02-09-2011, 06:50 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-09-2011, 06:51 PM
#41
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Oh boy !
02-09-2011, 06:51 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
02-09-2011, 07:04 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Using my old car as an example, with a 7000rpm redline. From 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd my optimal shift was 7000rpm, for 3rd to 4th it was 6800rpm, for 4th to 5th it was 6500rpm. So yes it's true for some cars, but it depends on the torque/power curve and gearing.
02-09-2011, 07:14 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
No it's not, you make more transmission output torque at 7250 RPM in 4th gear than you do at 6060rpm in 5th gear. You also make more transmission output torque at 7250rpm in 5th gear than you do at 5970rpm in 6th gear.
Using my old car as an example, with a 7000rpm redline. From 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd my optimal shift was 7000rpm, for 3rd to 4th it was 6800rpm, for 4th to 5th it was 6500rpm. So yes it's true for some cars, but it depends on the torque/power curve and gearing.
Using my old car as an example, with a 7000rpm redline. From 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd my optimal shift was 7000rpm, for 3rd to 4th it was 6800rpm, for 4th to 5th it was 6500rpm. So yes it's true for some cars, but it depends on the torque/power curve and gearing.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
02-09-2011, 07:16 PM
#45
Is it wrong to want to lose 20 to 40hp by shifting early? If that is wrong, I dont want to be right!
now we have the actual data on a spreadsheet to make the point crystal clear.
Certainly on the street, or when in the lead in a race, it might be a good idea to save the equipment. But when going for best laps, you need to take advantage of all your potential. Performance 101 here.
now we have the actual data on a spreadsheet to make the point crystal clear.
Certainly on the street, or when in the lead in a race, it might be a good idea to save the equipment. But when going for best laps, you need to take advantage of all your potential. Performance 101 here.
-td
