View Poll Results: PCA race format?
One sprint, one enduro
1
1.12%
Two sprints, one enduro
38
42.70%
Three sprints, one enduro
41
46.07%
Four sprints, no enduro
9
10.11%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll
PCA race format?
10-13-2010, 12:08 AM
#31
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I like the 3 sprint, 1 enduro format we're doing at CMP. That's 3 40 minute sprints and a 90 minute enduro per group.
If a sprint on Friday is too much, sit it out, no big deal. But it gives people the OPTION of racing more. As Kevin said, and I've been saying in all my ads for CMP, it's a RACE weekend, not a practice/warm up weekend. That's what DE's are for. And for the same price as a one sprint/one enduro weekend, you get MUCH more race time for your $$. For those of us on a very limited race budget, that's huge.
If a sprint on Friday is too much, sit it out, no big deal. But it gives people the OPTION of racing more. As Kevin said, and I've been saying in all my ads for CMP, it's a RACE weekend, not a practice/warm up weekend. That's what DE's are for. And for the same price as a one sprint/one enduro weekend, you get MUCH more race time for your $$. For those of us on a very limited race budget, that's huge.
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Bob Saville
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10-13-2010, 12:17 AM
#32
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Personnally I like the 3 sprint/one enduro format for the smaller tracks of about 2 miles in length. I feel the enduro should be limited to one hour for several reasons..no need to refuel which saves on getting a "pit" crew together, eliminated the hasards associated with your "pit" crew refueling a hot car with hot rotors and 90 minutes is a long time on equipment and driver. So if Carlos at approx. 35 years old gets tired what about us senior citizens.
On the bigger tracks like WGI, the time limitation and the Friday rookie day, forces a two sprint race format. I buy an extra hour of track time on Friday and Saturday to force fit all that needs to be done with a four race group format. There is no time for quailfing on Saturday with this format, so we "qualify" on the third practice on Friday.
I think the 90 minute enduro is OK on the larger tracks but foolish on the 2 mile tracks...60 laps is a little much on the smaller tracks versus 40 for the one hr enduro which also would be 40 laps for 90 minutes at WGI.
On the bigger tracks like WGI, the time limitation and the Friday rookie day, forces a two sprint race format. I buy an extra hour of track time on Friday and Saturday to force fit all that needs to be done with a four race group format. There is no time for quailfing on Saturday with this format, so we "qualify" on the third practice on Friday.
I think the 90 minute enduro is OK on the larger tracks but foolish on the 2 mile tracks...60 laps is a little much on the smaller tracks versus 40 for the one hr enduro which also would be 40 laps for 90 minutes at WGI.
That's the one aspect I like about Enduros (Physical and mental stress). Let's ban cool-suits and driver changes and it will be aLOT more intertesting 
I wish the car could be trained too to be more durable too!
10-13-2010, 07:33 AM
#33
Nordschleife Master
10-13-2010, 08:08 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
Agree on having a dedicated qualifying session. If it has to be on Friday to allow two sprint races on Saturday, that's probably the compromise that has to be made. But I also favor Friday being a set up day. Taking the fastest session of any of the practice sessions is awful IMHO. It also wreaks havoc if you're trying to manage tires. SPBox guys luckily don't have that issue.
10-13-2010, 12:15 PM
#35
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I just find that having one per day to prepare for is more fun. I prepare the car, there's the anticipation before the day, I get psych'd up to qualify, I qualify, I get psych'd to race, I race. Its a progression, and all of the day matters. Since everything matters, when you do well, its a real accomplishment. I go to a race weekend to compete and do as well as i can.
It's better if PCA is closer to SCCA and Pro racing, one qualifying session and one sprint race like it used to always be. Prepares us for moving up the ladder. I don't mind a second sprint on Sunday but more than that is sort of ridiculous.
Also I like using one NEW set of tires per weekend (qualifying, sprint, and enduro), but even 2 sprints is too much for a set and guys who put on fresh tires have an advantage.
10-13-2010, 12:43 PM
#36
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I agree
It's better if PCA is closer to SCCA and Pro racing, one qualifying session and one sprint race like it used to always be. Prepares us for moving up the ladder. I don't mind a second sprint on Sunday but more than that is sort of ridiculous.
Also I like using one NEW set of tires per weekend (qualifying, sprint, and enduro), but even 2 sprints is too much for a set and guys who put on fresh tires have an advantage.
It's better if PCA is closer to SCCA and Pro racing, one qualifying session and one sprint race like it used to always be. Prepares us for moving up the ladder. I don't mind a second sprint on Sunday but more than that is sort of ridiculous.
Also I like using one NEW set of tires per weekend (qualifying, sprint, and enduro), but even 2 sprints is too much for a set and guys who put on fresh tires have an advantage.
10-13-2010, 06:01 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
.......... Prefer Sprints to Enduros. Most of us race street derived racecars that are not engineered/built as endurance racecars. The stress on the cars and all its components driving at 10/10ths is exponentially higher with the duration of the race. Longer races are just a lot more expensive and reliability/luck plays a major factor.
And, as long as a driver is given the option to sign up for the enduro separately, then all is good as drivers not wanting to incur the additional costs associated with an enduro can opt out.
10-13-2010, 06:31 PM
#39
Bah. Let's just call the first session of the weekend the "qualifying" session, and every session after it is a race. More racing is better, right?
The problem with multiple races is that it has to come at the expense of something. Lately, that something has been a true "qualifying" session. So, instead of a true qualifying, the third session of the practice day is used as a practice/qualifying. Call me crazy, but I love the idea of being able to run 1 hot lap, come in and see my name at the top of the sheets.
If I were to put together my ideal schedule, it'd look something like this:
Day 1) 3 practice sessions + fun race
Day 2) 1 warmup session, 1 qualifying session, 1 sprint race (if we have time, we can do 2 sprint races, but don't try to force it. I.e., I'd rather have a 45 minute sprint race than have a 20 minute and a 25 minute set of races)
Day 3) 1 warmup session, 1 enduro qualifying session, 1 enduro. If something has to be scrapped, I'm torn between scrapping the warmup and the qualifier as there are good arguments for not needing either one (can't scrap both though because the enduro co-driver should have a chance to drive the car before the actual race)
The problem with multiple races is that it has to come at the expense of something. Lately, that something has been a true "qualifying" session. So, instead of a true qualifying, the third session of the practice day is used as a practice/qualifying. Call me crazy, but I love the idea of being able to run 1 hot lap, come in and see my name at the top of the sheets.
If I were to put together my ideal schedule, it'd look something like this:
Day 1) 3 practice sessions + fun race
Day 2) 1 warmup session, 1 qualifying session, 1 sprint race (if we have time, we can do 2 sprint races, but don't try to force it. I.e., I'd rather have a 45 minute sprint race than have a 20 minute and a 25 minute set of races)
Day 3) 1 warmup session, 1 enduro qualifying session, 1 enduro. If something has to be scrapped, I'm torn between scrapping the warmup and the qualifier as there are good arguments for not needing either one (can't scrap both though because the enduro co-driver should have a chance to drive the car before the actual race)
10-13-2010, 09:22 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Is there a PCA rule that says there has to be 3 practice sessions for the sprint race(s) during a race weekend?
I too really like the added pressure of qualifying... looking down at the lap timer each lap to see if I hit my goal. But if "Qualifying" is actually called "Practice #3" on the printed schedule, who cares.
It's not like the steward makes a surprise announcement at the driver's meeting: "Guess what everybody? Practice #3 was actually Qualifying!"
I too really like the added pressure of qualifying... looking down at the lap timer each lap to see if I hit my goal. But if "Qualifying" is actually called "Practice #3" on the printed schedule, who cares.
It's not like the steward makes a surprise announcement at the driver's meeting: "Guess what everybody? Practice #3 was actually Qualifying!"
10-13-2010, 09:25 PM
#41
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There may be, something to do with rookies needing so many practices and the fun race.
multiple practices on Friday are good for rookies and people new to the track to get comfortable...though it took me all weekend to get comfortable with Mid Ohio...
multiple practices on Friday are good for rookies and people new to the track to get comfortable...though it took me all weekend to get comfortable with Mid Ohio...
10-13-2010, 11:46 PM
#43
Is there a rule that you have to have the fun race for rookies at every race? If we could bag that here and there, it opens up the scheduling possibilities.
I like 2 sprints, 1 enduro. I love the enduros--fun to share with another driver.
I like 2 sprints, 1 enduro. I love the enduros--fun to share with another driver.
10-14-2010, 12:07 AM
#44
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Under Club Racing School procedures:
The Club Racing School will be conducted in conjunction with the first practice day of a PCA Club Race and will be organized as follows:
A. Registration and safety equipment inspection.
B. Club Racing Orientation Meeting, conducted by the PCA Club Racing National Steward (National Steward) for the race, which will focus on procedures for the School and detailed discussions of race driving etiquette, techniques, and on-track safety procedures. The class room session will be held in the evening before the first day of the Club Race.
Open practice sessions. License candidates will practice with the regular race groups.
D. Review of open practice session comments with each license candidate.
E. Practice rolling start session, with at least three starts, with the last practice start allowed to continue to a short practice race. These sessions will be for all race groups if time permits.
F. Review of performance results with each license candidate.
10-14-2010, 12:56 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
Interesting we just dealt with this in NASA with our annual enduro, 3 hrs long, 1 pitstop required and at least 1 5gal jug has to be dumped in. It is a blast. The weekend is sat warm up, practice, qualify, 30min race. Sunday warm up, qualify and the solution to the enduro conflict is a one hour sprint inside a three hour enduro. You have to declare whether you are sprint or enduro, at the one hour the field gets a white then checker and the sprinters come in, the enduros run on the distance. Sprints get standard points, enduro double points bonus.
Lots of issues discussed about mixed traffic and clarifying who your racing but with enduro cars tagged you know who's in your race and the mixed speed/race strategy is sort of like an alms race...
Driver changes with teams is fun and it really gives you a small glimpse into the feel of a pro race...loads of fun, gotta do it!!!!
Lots of issues discussed about mixed traffic and clarifying who your racing but with enduro cars tagged you know who's in your race and the mixed speed/race strategy is sort of like an alms race...
Driver changes with teams is fun and it really gives you a small glimpse into the feel of a pro race...loads of fun, gotta do it!!!!