Anyone here ever switch from racing a 911 to...........
09-14-2010, 01:24 AM
#31
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after my subaru burned down I ran my father's 74 911 at probably 4 or 5 DE weekends before getting my spec miata. Never raced the 911, only the SM, so I can only tell you the differences in driving. I feel driving the 911 was the biggest improvement to my driving up until about the last year. Completely different driving style in an older 911 which forces you to learn how to get to power as early as possible to keep the rear end down. Also being older it didn't have the power of the newer cars so still had to carry the speed to run with the new cars.
I wouldn't say that switching to the miata has taught me anything. HOWEVER, racing the miata has made me a much better driver. While it doesn't take a different kind of skillset to drive, you have to be so perfect in the car. In a 50 car SCCA field if you go a few mph too slow at apex or a little early on the brakes you can lose 3-5 positions in the blink of an eye. Someone can take advantage of any little screw-up, so it forces you to be on the ball constantly.
I wouldn't say that switching to the miata has taught me anything. HOWEVER, racing the miata has made me a much better driver. While it doesn't take a different kind of skillset to drive, you have to be so perfect in the car. In a 50 car SCCA field if you go a few mph too slow at apex or a little early on the brakes you can lose 3-5 positions in the blink of an eye. Someone can take advantage of any little screw-up, so it forces you to be on the ball constantly.
09-14-2010, 08:47 AM
#33
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Paolo PM RSA (aka Jeff Parnell). He races both an E class 911 and a spec miata.
09-14-2010, 10:33 AM
#36
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I can only speak about racing SSM/SM in the SCCA. I have never run w/NASA and only DE 986's & 911's in the PCA:
1. Miatas race in close contact under a less gentlemanly rule-set than PCA. Although technically illegal there is a lot of minor contact. You are taught to race very close to eliminate the effects of that contact. SSM/SM's are spec cars and thus fairly comparable within category, esp. SSM. The fields are large and constitute the vast majority of a full-up race group (i.e. 38 out of 40 on LRP). I think that you have to be a whole lot more talented to place in a Miata race because of the amount of competition on the track with you. You don't ever come in first just because the one other car was slower.
2. Strategies are both the same and different. You want to have fun. You want to learn. You want to win. You want to be close to capitalize on another's mistakes. SSM/SM's are completely momentum beasts -- simply 0 power. Even the oldest 911 has some pick-up after a down-shift and can hit >115 on a long straight. Other MX-5 classes are different. State of mind? You need to learn to be patient on the straights. At WGI you can order a pizza on the back straight, have it delivered to the sole, and eat it on the front straight. You are a whole lot less concerned about your equipment. My rotors are $16 and a fender is $140; my new (used) engine was $1100 installed, in 3 days. You can realign the sucker with a couple of plates and 2 tape measures. And you never hesitate to bash out a fender with a hammer.
3. Driving any car in any context (including AX -- good advice) will help with driving any other car in any other context. A car is a car. Having said that, an SSM is a more forgiving car to drive than any 911. Being completely balanced and underpowered, any dumb-*** move that will kill you in a 911 will generally cause a Miata to go straight and lose momentum.
4. Isn't this the same as q.1?
5. SSM/SM racing is fantastic budget racing populated by a great variety of terrific people. Very friendly competition.
But when I grow up I want to race an SRF!
(Mindy)
1. Miatas race in close contact under a less gentlemanly rule-set than PCA. Although technically illegal there is a lot of minor contact. You are taught to race very close to eliminate the effects of that contact. SSM/SM's are spec cars and thus fairly comparable within category, esp. SSM. The fields are large and constitute the vast majority of a full-up race group (i.e. 38 out of 40 on LRP). I think that you have to be a whole lot more talented to place in a Miata race because of the amount of competition on the track with you. You don't ever come in first just because the one other car was slower.
2. Strategies are both the same and different. You want to have fun. You want to learn. You want to win. You want to be close to capitalize on another's mistakes. SSM/SM's are completely momentum beasts -- simply 0 power. Even the oldest 911 has some pick-up after a down-shift and can hit >115 on a long straight. Other MX-5 classes are different. State of mind? You need to learn to be patient on the straights. At WGI you can order a pizza on the back straight, have it delivered to the sole, and eat it on the front straight. You are a whole lot less concerned about your equipment. My rotors are $16 and a fender is $140; my new (used) engine was $1100 installed, in 3 days. You can realign the sucker with a couple of plates and 2 tape measures. And you never hesitate to bash out a fender with a hammer.
3. Driving any car in any context (including AX -- good advice) will help with driving any other car in any other context. A car is a car. Having said that, an SSM is a more forgiving car to drive than any 911. Being completely balanced and underpowered, any dumb-*** move that will kill you in a 911 will generally cause a Miata to go straight and lose momentum.
4. Isn't this the same as q.1?
5. SSM/SM racing is fantastic budget racing populated by a great variety of terrific people. Very friendly competition.
But when I grow up I want to race an SRF!
(Mindy)
[Going O/T]
I'd like to put in a quick plug for 944 Spec. Depending on where you are, the fields are getting larger (at/about double digits in most regions). An entry level 944 Spec costs a bit more than an entry level SM (more stuff that should be gone through once before racing), but a National Championship level car costs a lot less - 944's are notoriously hard to get meaningful power out of through pro builds. I'll sell my 2 time National Championship winning car to the first person with $12K in hand.
We take ourselves a bit less seriously at times (no ladder to pro racing goes through 944 Spec), and this allows us to do some fun things. This last weekend, everyone swapped cars for qualifying, and the second race was a pursuit race handicapped by the best laptime from the first. This allowed everyone a chance to win, even with a lesser prepared car, just by driving consistantly. We do this once a year. This was all great fun, and helped everyone dial in their cars, and find ot what there cars could do in the hands of the front runners. It also ends any speculating about cheating when the fast guy goes fast in your car, too
.As was mentioned, lap times & racing between 944 Spec & SM are similar, though we have less contact. We have rentals, too: www.BENMS.com
[/OT]
09-14-2010, 10:37 AM
#37
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Think about your objectives, Paolo. If running cost is on your radar then SM is certainly going to save money. Sounds like lots of cars in each race and very stiff competition near the top. That has + s and - s.
09-14-2010, 10:49 AM
#38
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I'll give my plug for SRF over SM.
1. It's truly spec.
2. It's a real racecar
3. CSR (customer service reps) at most every race. They have every part for your car on their trailer. I've yet to see someone go home from a weekend for a broken car unless they didn't want to spend the time. We had a guy this weekend have a big shunt that bent EVERYTHING on the front of the car but the frame. He was out the next day.
4. In the past year or two there have been a number of natnional champions in other classes come back to the class because of the quality of racing and the fairness of the playing field.
1. It's truly spec.
2. It's a real racecar
3. CSR (customer service reps) at most every race. They have every part for your car on their trailer. I've yet to see someone go home from a weekend for a broken car unless they didn't want to spend the time. We had a guy this weekend have a big shunt that bent EVERYTHING on the front of the car but the frame. He was out the next day.
4. In the past year or two there have been a number of natnional champions in other classes come back to the class because of the quality of racing and the fairness of the playing field.
09-14-2010, 10:59 AM
#40
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Any of the SCCA weekends would be good. Right now the runoffs are starting up so there will be a bit of a dead zone as most people will be out there.
Here's a NE schedule.
http://www.nescca.com/nescca%5Fmain/schedule.pdf
It looks like the regional championship race is at LR on Oct 2-3 (called the NARRC runoffs)
I'd find one of the CSRs and talk them up. Motion Dynamics and Hagerman Race are the two in that area and both are great groups.
The Pro season just finished this weekend at VIR so that's done until next year.
Here's a NE schedule.
http://www.nescca.com/nescca%5Fmain/schedule.pdf
It looks like the regional championship race is at LR on Oct 2-3 (called the NARRC runoffs)
I'd find one of the CSRs and talk them up. Motion Dynamics and Hagerman Race are the two in that area and both are great groups.
The Pro season just finished this weekend at VIR so that's done until next year.
09-14-2010, 11:13 AM
#41
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I'll give my plug for SRF over SM.
1. It's truly spec.
2. It's a real racecar
3. CSR (customer service reps) at most every race. They have every part for your car on their trailer. I've yet to see someone go home from a weekend for a broken car unless they didn't want to spend the time. We had a guy this weekend have a big shunt that bent EVERYTHING on the front of the car but the frame. He was out the next day.
4. In the past year or two there have been a number of natnional champions in other classes come back to the class because of the quality of racing and the fairness of the playing field.
1. It's truly spec.
2. It's a real racecar
3. CSR (customer service reps) at most every race. They have every part for your car on their trailer. I've yet to see someone go home from a weekend for a broken car unless they didn't want to spend the time. We had a guy this weekend have a big shunt that bent EVERYTHING on the front of the car but the frame. He was out the next day.
4. In the past year or two there have been a number of natnional champions in other classes come back to the class because of the quality of racing and the fairness of the playing field.
09-14-2010, 11:19 AM
#42
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SRF is a great platform but it is a bit unfair to compare it to SM, don`t you think? SRF, atom, other open wheel cars - there are a lot of options but if one wants simplest portable platform to run with no trailer needed - SM is a simplest one probably, and a cheapest one. if one is OK with miata as car choice to begin with.
2. Do you really think you can drive a fully prepped Spec Miata to the track??
09-14-2010, 11:45 AM
#43
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SM crowd is kinda different from spec boxster crowd - i do not think i saw a single BSR that would be driven around, they all seem to be hauled in trailers. SM crowd has a different mentality perhaps. I saw plenty of SM cars that arrive to Devens on their own and drive away having tires, etc, in the car or on a rack attached to a tow hook. kinda an interesting sight to see. but as of your 'can' question - yes, apparently they 'can'.
09-14-2010, 11:53 AM
#45
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Don't want to hijack the thread, but Paolo, have you considered 944 CUP?
You could do PCA, NASA, SCCA events, the cars are like the Miata's but with a little bit more power.
The disadvantage versus the Miata: cost of replacement parts. But otherwise a momentum car and a Porsche!
WE all had lots of fun at VIR last weekend!
c.
You could do PCA, NASA, SCCA events, the cars are like the Miata's but with a little bit more power.
The disadvantage versus the Miata: cost of replacement parts. But otherwise a momentum car and a Porsche!
WE all had lots of fun at VIR last weekend!
c.