Bull993tt

I started Autocrossing in 1998 and got very competetive in my 968. I then moved up to my 993TT and became even more competitve in autocrossing with both PCA and SCCA. AutoXing is key in learning car control (at any speed) and helps a lot with slower speed cornering and shorter technical tracks. One thing AutoXing doesn't help with is "Situation Awarness". Knowing what's going on around you... in front, both sides, and behind you at ALL times at speed is critical to being fast but most importantly safe. I started DE'ing with PCA in 2003 with my 968 and was very humbling and eye opening experience the first day out. I thought I was going to tear it up because I was a hot shoe AutoXer, but man was I put in my place. What this means is seat-time is very important and you can't rush the process. Some will learn faster then others no doubt, but practice makes perfect. I then bought a dedicated 2300lb light weight 944 race car with a 3.0 968 motor and DE'ed for another year. I will never forget that first PCA race at Summit point as a rookie in my 944 GT3S class at the time. I learned more in that race weekend then I did in my two years of DE's. It's my fifth year racing now with both NASA and PCA in my 911 and it's been awesome. I raced in NASA GTS4 and PCA GT4S with my old 3.4 and now NASA GTS5 or Super Unlimited (depending on competition) and PCA GT3R with my new Peter Dawe 3.8. At the end of the day, I continue to learn, get faster, be safe, and have fun.

quickxotica

Thanks for saving me the trouble of spelling out what I meant by "headaches of racing" in my post above. I would add that you also need a tow rig, trailer, race car and place to store all three between events... wherease with DE/TT you can drive the car to events rather than towing it, and even obtain some marginal utility/enjoyment out of it as a weekend-car. And everything fits into a normal garage.

mark kibort

Not really. I have been driving to most all of my races for over 10 years now.

all my tires and equip, fits in the car. even 4 x 305x18 wheels and tires for the race!

I drive it to my garage after the races and unload. it all fits in half the small garage, along with enough tires for the next 3 -4 seasons.

here it is packed up, after the race from the recent Laguna Seca POC event

race911

Not really for me, either. I get no enjoyment out of running anything but the most marginally streetable car on track, if it's not a fully prepared car. To at least stock class wheel-to-wheel specs, anyway. I rolled my C4S out a couple of years ago with street tires; a first for me in 20+ years. I lasted three laps.

Everyone's got his own interpretation of what he enjoys out there, and you've earned your money so spend it how you see fit. Most important thing is to participate.

mrbill_fl

yeah, I told myself I was perfectly happy just running, the 1st year with used tires. Then the 2nd year I started running in the middle pack, by the 3rd yr is was suspension and new tires every 4th-5 weekend (yokos'/toyos), by the 4th year is hoosiers, and the 5th year new hoos' every damn weekend. -and I still needed remote reservoir, 3 way shocks the top 3 guys had...

Crack would have been a whole lot cheaper, and would have taken less of my time!

-but I don't have any regrets .. it might have been the most fun I ever had in my life!

but just know how addictive it is...

RSA333

62 DE's since 1994 (they did exist back then). 2 years of pro racing in IMSA in the mid-90s (that was a steep f*cking learning curve). Bondurant GP School and Russel Advanced school. 5 weeks with a pro instructor by ourselves on the track in the 90's. Spinning or going off track is not a sin. The sooner you do it, the better.

Obvious - never put a car on the track that you can't afford to lose in its entirety. Ideally, race someone else's car.

Larry Herman

Starting Autocrossing in 1972, DE's in 1983 and Racing in 1995.

drvirden

You should organize that track weekend--driving, with target practice between run sessions. It'd be great!

earlyapex

I competed in PCA AX events for 2 years and DE's for 4 years before I started racing. Racing in PRC is so much fun that I can't see going back to AX. I've dropped DE's from my calendar unless I need a test and tune day.

Circuit Motorsports

Lots of them exist. The cost makes racing look CHEAP.

dbryant61

Kibort, I think it amazing that you drive your race car to the track. I can imagine figuring out a ride home if at VIR (4 hours away), but nothing farther. Roebling (8 hours) or NJMP (6 hours) would be a problem getting home if something broke (almost never) or I or another driver caused a problem.

AX? I think all driving time adds to the skill-set. Karting and AX have to help, but as was previously written, nothing prepares you for your first race. The rolling-start mayhem has to create the highest adrenaline levels I've ever had (that I engaged in willingly). AX and karting for car control, especially at low speed; D.E. for learning "the line", some situational awareness, and what the car does at speed; and a good race school for more situational awareness. Racecraft is learned racing, and I have a long way to go.

CWhaley

I must disagree on some of this... after 12 yrs of motocross (3 yrs Pro) can teach you the mayhem of the rolling start... You go from a straight line of 40 plus racers... whom all will get up to a top speed before the first turn... that is only wide enough for maybe 6 bikes to fit thru safely... then spend the rest of the race with guys using you a target ... in the air and corners... I have had a many students as me why I am so calm and have such a wide range of view...

It is from the years of motorcycle racing... So, Racecraft is a learned skill... Situational awareness is all part & parcel of the same skills.

dbryant61

You're picking nits. I wrote that nothing prepares you for the start, meaning that nothing other than racing prepares you for the starts. You confirmed that by stating that your experience in racing starts prepared you for racing starts. Does not matter if it is motorcycles, go-karts, or cars. A standing start would obviously help prepare you for rolling starts. My point is that nothing other than starting a race with multiple vehicles and drivers trying to accelerate quickly and occupy the same space at the same time can prepare someone who has not yet raced for the start of a race.

I also wrote "D.E. for learning...some situational awareness", implying that the remaining situational awareness must be learned while racing.

I do not see where you disagree.

CWhaley

Maybe I was picking nits.... But, You really can not get situational awareness down from your average DE... With the proliferation of advanced days or open track events... even TT's will develop those skills... outside of actual competition.

Kenneth Greenfield

I did about 8-10 DE's in the mid 80's. Never did any Auto X. I also did some instructing. I went to a Skip Barber school in early 1987 and went Firehawk racing with IMSA in 1987-1988. Did not feel comfortable there as 944's were rolling chicanes for Camaros and moved to Vintage racing with SVRA/HSR in a 356 "B" Roadster from 1988-1993.

I was out of performance driving until 2009. Did about 6 DE's to knock off the rust and will begin testing two 914-6's beginning this weekend at Sebring and will again Vintage race in 2011 in both cars. Ken Greenfield