mrbill_fl

Airplanes and/or boats!

TedA

nuff said.....

analogmike

I did a DE, then autocrossed heavily for about decade, with a few DEs every year. Then after a few years off I started racing. Autocrossing really helps you learn to control the car at the limit (or over) while thinking ahead to the next corner.

mhm993

I AX'd for 3 years and DE'd for about 5 years. Also, in order to get my SCCA license I needed 2 driving schools w/in 12 months. One of those was a school given by the SCCA (Glen Region) which was a real race school and not just a driving school. In order to do that you need a car and equipment that will pass SCCA tech.

My opinion is that you need to be able to drive the track upon which you race almost subconsciously in order to deal with the other stuff that is happening around you. Race craft is the next lesson and for that you really need a mentor. It is all much more complex and mental than it seems. Just being fast isn't going to do it. Seek cars in which you can learn and large fields of similar cars in which you can develop.

-- Mindy

mclaudio

Before wheel to wheel racing in chronological order:

- One AX event

- Five POC time trial events in Socal tracks

- All the Jim Russell School Programs - Advance Racing Course, Techniques of Racing Course, Highway survival, Karting, etc.

- One and a half sessions of DE - I didn't like it due to substandard instructor and overall unsafe feeling while driving a non race-prepped, street car on track with a bunch of drivers who think they are racing.

The best thing I ever did to learn race craft is to go to a proper race school...

mark kibort

20 years of driving "flat out" on the street, in the snow and in most everything you can rent or buy to run on the street. 2 years of DE and then right into 13 years of racing. Racing was tame compared to all the DE yahoo events, but a lot more fun and rewarding.

Potomac-Greg

That's a very, very interesting path, and completely understandable.

SundayDriver

I have served as a licensing instructor at SCCA competition schools. You are correct, though there is a flip side.

Some of the best students had a lot of DE experience. But the worst students also had a lot of DE experience and were very fast. That later group drove fast what didn't recognize that there was a whole set of skills (racecraft) where they did not measure up to their driving. As a result, they were fast but dangerous. They had the most spins and close calls because they thought they had it all.

The best students recognized early that they were missing a key skill. They backed off on speed and worked on racing. I don't recall if we ever had to fail someone from the first group, but I know it was close in some cases.

GT3 Techno

Very interesting thread ! May be after few pages you can summarize what is the best road map to amateur racing, assuming pro racing is a different story. I guess most real pro racers (who earn their living out of racing) started very young and were almost full time dedicated to this sport/work activity.

In my case, I started pretty late in my life... I did stupid things on the streets as a teenager but really got addicted to speed and machine control when I bought my first motocross at 40. Did practices on race tracks with friends (one of which hapenning to be a former Canadian Champ) for 5 years. The good thing about motocross is that I had no choice but to get back in shape as this sport is brutal physically, which is still making a great difference for me today. Then I broke my ankle and realized that it would be safer to see what I can do in cars.

I started doing DEs (5 to 8 events a year) for 2 years during which I joined also a lapping club that separates cars in only 2 run groups (street cars and race cars) if you are certified solo. This translated into probably 40 track days per year, although the lapping club was offering much more track time than DEs (7 sessions of 30 minutes per day). During the same period, I bought a race Kart (Rotax 125 DD2) and spent probably 30 hours of practice/testing and few races each year. Karting was great for racing strategy and was also a physical challenge.

With that minimal experience I started racing this year with only 1 Club Race event (2 races) at Mosport. I know some will say racing as a rookie in a Cup car is not a good idea... I felt comfortable and was lucky enough to have a good deal on the car so why not ? I spent roughly 40 hours of seat time in the car before the first race. My goal is not to win races at this point anyway. I really want to be in control and don't care letting faster driver pass me. I did also few gentlemen races. Will do another local race this fall (Tremblant Fall Classic). I am now addicted.

TheOtherEric

No way; you can get TONS out of DE events if you're self-motivated. I treat every DE as my own qualifying sessions and am always racing the clock, my historical lap times, and lap times of my peers. I can see how it might bore some people, but not when you have goals. Yes I moved to racing but not out of boredom.

Disagree with that too. Like was mentioned above, it's not uncommon to slow down when racing to focus on racecraft. You can easily push the car harder in DE versus racing; it just depends on if you're self-motivated.

Back on topic; I did maybe 75+ days of DE then switched to racing. Why? It simply took me that long to feel like an "instinctual" driver.

Van

200 MPH on the autobahn... in a Caterham... in the rain.



Followed by a year of auto-x, 6 years of DE and 8 years of racing.

M758

If I drive at DE like I do in a race I would get blag flagged and booted out the door.

Personally I am glad I did only 15 DE days before racing. I was stagnating DE and need to have the place to both push harder and feel the pressure of competition. At the time I knew the basics and could drive fine, but did not have fine edge needed. I also did not know race craft then either, but I knew I did not know it and was ok with needing to learn it. These days if I do a DE I need to dial it back a bit to prevent scareing everyone out there.

Ritter v4.0

As soon as I became runner-up National DE Champion I knew it was time to move on.

mrbill_fl

I think my biggest mentor was the shop owner that serviced my car.

He had raced imsa gtu (semi/pro) he said I'd drop 2 seconds a lap my first year. I also raced in a spec series where there was always someone to run with, back, middle or front of the pack.

I put lots of mirrors on my car, and pointed a lot of guys around during races. that really helped me in the pits with my competition and the front of the pack guys. (some were also paying for track side service from my speed shop).

so the guys I was pointing by would look at my car, give me tips, and their old tires... it was year 3 when I changed the stock suspension to the better setup the fast guys were running. -it was the shop owner that said I needed it now. by year 4 I was running in the front pack. and even led a few races... (for a few laps) - leading was like starting all over again.. LOL!

in DE's if you have someone to run with, thats one of the best things you can do.. pace them, then let them pace you... you see where you can gain half a car length or loose it.

OTOH, the 1st year running DE's after I sold the race car, I almost punted a guy off the track, when I closed way too fast. (and drove off into the grass). I was setting him up for the pass coming out of the turn, but he checked up for a car infront of him, and I didn't expect that at all...

-if they had open passing then, I would just have dove for the apex, and been gone, but it was not allowed, and I sure didn't want to set a bad example... man. that scared the hell out of me.. -you never know when someone will slow down at a DE... (that never happened at a test day or race weekend)

CWhaley

It really is about getting to know your car and YOU.