Rally driving at a PCA race..........
08-30-2010, 11:22 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
You guys bicker more than my kids.
Paolo, in addition to what everyone's saying about looking and planning ahead (that will make your steering inputs much smoother), please share with us what your data acquisition shows. You have to be having some serious weight transfer issues mid corner to get the rear to swing out like that. I bet you'll see prominent throttle lifting mid corner...
If anything, driving at the limit requires a smooth, delicate touch. It's like driving on the edge of a razor blade (look for some of Leh Keen's in-car footage). I have a hunch that you're man-handling the car, over driving it, and thinking you're at the "edge".
And you might be at the edge for your skill level, but that's why we all try to continually improve! Imagine how it would be if a pro, or even someone like Charlie
, drove your car? What would they do differently from what you're doing?
Paolo, in addition to what everyone's saying about looking and planning ahead (that will make your steering inputs much smoother), please share with us what your data acquisition shows. You have to be having some serious weight transfer issues mid corner to get the rear to swing out like that. I bet you'll see prominent throttle lifting mid corner...
If anything, driving at the limit requires a smooth, delicate touch. It's like driving on the edge of a razor blade (look for some of Leh Keen's in-car footage). I have a hunch that you're man-handling the car, over driving it, and thinking you're at the "edge".
And you might be at the edge for your skill level, but that's why we all try to continually improve! Imagine how it would be if a pro, or even someone like Charlie
, drove your car? What would they do differently from what you're doing?
08-30-2010, 11:31 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Gary, I'm a bit ticked that you have said twice that I am calling someone a liar. I do not think he is lying, I think he is wrong. If you do not know the difference, then keep quiet. I'm sure he believes his car is making "210 hp". He even has a dyno sheet to prove it.
The facts are: Paolo posts asking for advice, doesn't take it, tries to compare his obviously faster car to mine as if mine is faster, and you say I'm calling him a liar because I know the difference between crank hp and rwhp and the approximate stock hp values of a Boxster and Carrera? I know my stuff, he doesn't, and you're making accusations of me?
The facts are: Paolo posts asking for advice, doesn't take it, tries to compare his obviously faster car to mine as if mine is faster, and you say I'm calling him a liar because I know the difference between crank hp and rwhp and the approximate stock hp values of a Boxster and Carrera? I know my stuff, he doesn't, and you're making accusations of me?
if you believe the numbers are not correct I would like to sit down with you for lunch and discuss.......
08-30-2010, 11:36 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You guys bicker more than my kids.
Paolo, in addition to what everyone's saying about looking and planning ahead (that will make your steering inputs much smoother), please share with us what your data acquisition shows. You have to be having some serious weight transfer issues mid corner to get the rear to swing out like that. I bet you'll see prominent throttle lifting mid corner...
If anything, driving at the limit requires a smooth, delicate touch. It's like driving on the edge of a razor blade (look for some of Leh Keen's in-car footage). I have a hunch that you're man-handling the car, over driving it, and thinking you're at the "edge".
And you might be at the edge for your skill level, but that's why we all try to continually improve! Imagine how it would be if a pro, or even someone like Charlie, drove your car? What would they do differently from what you're doing?
Paolo, in addition to what everyone's saying about looking and planning ahead (that will make your steering inputs much smoother), please share with us what your data acquisition shows. You have to be having some serious weight transfer issues mid corner to get the rear to swing out like that. I bet you'll see prominent throttle lifting mid corner...
If anything, driving at the limit requires a smooth, delicate touch. It's like driving on the edge of a razor blade (look for some of Leh Keen's in-car footage). I have a hunch that you're man-handling the car, over driving it, and thinking you're at the "edge".
And you might be at the edge for your skill level, but that's why we all try to continually improve! Imagine how it would be if a pro, or even someone like Charlie
, drove your car? What would they do differently from what you're doing?If Charlie wants to drive my car, I am ready to learn........
08-30-2010, 11:52 PM
#65
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This thread has done a:
08-30-2010, 11:53 PM
#66
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Wow, I am glad I have been traveling today...boys dial it down a notch or 6.Paolo simply asked for advise and comments. That takes some stones to begin within a forum environment. Paolo you drove well most of the weekend. That section of the track had minimal grip. I would strongly advise however to review your data and see if in fact you lifted or not so you learn from the experience. BTW, I hope the directions home provided less traffic for your return north. Paolo it's Leder no "a" ...I enjoy Canada but not from there.
08-31-2010, 12:30 AM
#67
Didn't really read the whole thread, but watched the video.
You are way behind the car - you can see the slide starting to happen in the video well before you start unwinding the wheel or trying to correct. You should be able to feel the slide coming and make a small correction to stop it long before I should be able to see it coming in a video. At the point when you are starting to correct it is late, but still catchable, however you are way over correcting which is causing the snap back to the other direction.
Basically seat time. Try to get on a skid pad (wet if possible) and mess around if you get the chance.
Watch one of Leh Keen's videos that are around on youtube and note the small corrections he makes before there is a slide that is perceptible from the onboard camera. In the few instances where you can see the slide in the video, he makes an appropriate correction which does not cause a slide back the other way.
Remember - the second slide is the one you have to worry about. In the videos you are "catching" the initial slide but not anticipating the tank slapper back the other way well enough.
You are way behind the car - you can see the slide starting to happen in the video well before you start unwinding the wheel or trying to correct. You should be able to feel the slide coming and make a small correction to stop it long before I should be able to see it coming in a video. At the point when you are starting to correct it is late, but still catchable, however you are way over correcting which is causing the snap back to the other direction.
Basically seat time. Try to get on a skid pad (wet if possible) and mess around if you get the chance.
Watch one of Leh Keen's videos that are around on youtube and note the small corrections he makes before there is a slide that is perceptible from the onboard camera. In the few instances where you can see the slide in the video, he makes an appropriate correction which does not cause a slide back the other way.
Remember - the second slide is the one you have to worry about. In the videos you are "catching" the initial slide but not anticipating the tank slapper back the other way well enough.
08-31-2010, 08:21 AM
#68
En to
Paolo, listen to what Charlie said....
He made his point pretty clear, constructive. I don't know how you got it crossed, stop bickering and listen...
He made his point pretty clear, constructive. I don't know how you got it crossed, stop bickering and listen...
08-31-2010, 10:13 AM
#72
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Points to ponder;
- Learning to race by going racing is natural. Learning to drive by going racing is not.
- Everything the car does comes from the driver (excepting failures or environmentals). Tank slappers are caused by the driver ("slow hands").
- It's Not the Wig That Gets you, It's the Wag. Wigs happen. Wags are caused by the driver.
- If Charlie is right about nothing else, he is right about this; there's no such thing as a momentum cars. There are drivers, and then there are DRIVERS.
- Courage for posting? Yah... But let barking dogs bark. They will wander off if no one pays them any attention.
- Learning to race by going racing is natural. Learning to drive by going racing is not.
- Everything the car does comes from the driver (excepting failures or environmentals). Tank slappers are caused by the driver ("slow hands").
- It's Not the Wig That Gets you, It's the Wag. Wigs happen. Wags are caused by the driver.
- If Charlie is right about nothing else, he is right about this; there's no such thing as a momentum cars. There are drivers, and then there are DRIVERS.
- Courage for posting? Yah... But let barking dogs bark. They will wander off if no one pays them any attention.
08-31-2010, 10:14 AM
#74
Rennlist
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For some reason I cannot see the video. Is it private now?
Anyway I coached Paolo this spring, and he has the skills to drive very quickly, and does feel the car well. It just takes more experience to anticipate what can happen, and be ready as opposed to being reactionary. People have a difficult enough time with this at a simple DE. When you add the pressure and distractions of racing, if you are pressing to go fast without your driving being 100% subconscious, then you are going to have moments.
Anyway I coached Paolo this spring, and he has the skills to drive very quickly, and does feel the car well. It just takes more experience to anticipate what can happen, and be ready as opposed to being reactionary. People have a difficult enough time with this at a simple DE. When you add the pressure and distractions of racing, if you are pressing to go fast without your driving being 100% subconscious, then you are going to have moments.
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
08-31-2010, 10:52 AM
#75
Drifting
